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Old 06-02-2010, 02:03 PM
 
20,324 posts, read 15,687,589 times
Reputation: 7441

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahigherway View Post
Hi Mike555,
I'm not a calvinist. I simply believe in a God who is working all things according to His will. God made the waster to destroy. He makes the rich and poor, seeing and blind. He hardens whom He will. We are the clay, and the clay is worked by the potters hands. That includes you, my friend!

You say that God desires all to be saved, but His desires will not be fulfilled.
Remember, that God knows the man He created very, very, very well. He's not agitated about things getting out of control, because they have never been out of control. That's because He's God.
He made man a sinner in order to have mercy upon him. No one is righteous, Mike, neither you nor I. You too, were lost one time. Don't forget that.

Without Him, we are totally lost. Totally.

Blessings to you,
brian
2 Tim. 2:4 compared with Matthew 7:13-23 says it.

Those who believe in Christ are saved and those who don't, aren't. It's that simple.

Final comment.

Last edited by Mike555; 06-02-2010 at 02:32 PM..
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Old 06-02-2010, 02:35 PM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 5,115,975 times
Reputation: 866
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
2 Tim. 2:4 compared with Matthew 7:13-23 says it.

Those who believe in Christ are saved and those who don't, aren't. It's that simple.

Final comment.
As you prefer.

Blessings,
brian
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Old 06-02-2010, 02:57 PM
 
3,581 posts, read 458,427 times
Reputation: 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post

This lack of WORKING is why love waxes COLD. I am saved, you are saved, we all are saved, so sit back, and enjoy the ride. NOT!

But hey, my HO. Jesus does KNOW WHO IS HIS. Not everyone who professes, gets in. He said it, not me. And remember WHO they are professing, but this is NOT what you preach, so it is WRONG.
True HotinAZ
There is hope for the oppressed, abused, downtrodden, humble -- those that are given much, much is required ..........
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Old 06-02-2010, 03:08 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,965 posts, read 5,577,539 times
Reputation: 1584
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
I have presented the facts regarding the necessity of believing in Christ for salvation. Some will listen. Many will not. The usual objecters on this forum have voiced their rejection of what is plainly declared in the word of God. Since they will not listen, let them then remain as they are. My responsibilty is to present the truth. That I have done. I am not going to keep going back and forth with those who won't and don't want to listen.
No, Mike, what you have done is tried to convince us that you know who is and is not SAVED - who IS or IS NOT a TRUE BELIEVER. You are full of yourself - it is very obvious. If you were filled with the Spirit of Christ you'd be full of grace and truth and you'd be bearing the fruits of the Holy Spirit... love, joy, peace, mercy, kindness, meekness, humility, self control.... I suggest that you might want to go into your prayer closet and ask God to examine you in private. You are the consummate Pharisee, thinking yourself saved and other Christians lost. It's really tiring. How dare you continue to condemn those who believe in UR. They do not condemn you! You are setting yourself up in the place of Christ. I would recommend that you NOT continue doing that.

Heartsong
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Old 06-02-2010, 03:22 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,559 posts, read 31,952,420 times
Reputation: 9421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartsong View Post
No, Mike, what you have done is tried to convince us that you know who is and is not SAVED - who IS or IS NOT a TRUE BELIEVER. You are full of yourself - it is very obvious.
That is a horribly dishonest statement. You people were trying to make equally dishonest claims about me yesterday, and I am begining to wonder why. What's up with the false claims and twisting of other people's words?

Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 06-02-2010 at 04:25 PM..
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Old 06-02-2010, 03:29 PM
 
964 posts, read 717,527 times
Reputation: 393
I'm going to suggest something that will probably have people from both sides of the debate roll their eyes but here goes.

Scripture this VS. scripture that isn't working. The debate rages on. ET vs. UR. When I believed in ET, I thought the same thing, that UR was non-biblical. Now I have no doubt in UR, none.

Let's put God to the test. I need to pray on this first before I suggest something. I was going to say something like I will pick a random weather or astronomical event that will happen say in the next 2 weeks or so that will be an unquestionable sign. My only worry is if it would pan out people would say, see, it's the power of the devil, he can work wonders too.

So if there are any UR'ers(actually, anyone that feels led. Doesn't have to be a UR person ) out there that would agree with me on this , please PM me and I will start a new post.

Last edited by Zero 7; 06-02-2010 at 03:50 PM..
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Old 06-02-2010, 03:30 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,385,346 times
Reputation: 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
That is a horribly dishonest statement. You people were trying to make equally dishonest claims about be yesterday, and I am begining to wonder why. What's up with the false claims and twisting of other people's words?



Ahhhh......It hurts, doesn't it?
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Old 06-02-2010, 03:48 PM
 
20,324 posts, read 15,687,589 times
Reputation: 7441
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartsong View Post
No, Mike, what you have done is tried to convince us that you know who is and is not SAVED - who IS or IS NOT a TRUE BELIEVER. You are full of yourself - it is very obvious. If you were filled with the Spirit of Christ you'd be full of grace and truth and you'd be bearing the fruits of the Holy Spirit... love, joy, peace, mercy, kindness, meekness, humility, self control.... I suggest that you might want to go into your prayer closet and ask God to examine you in private. You are the consummate Pharisee, thinking yourself saved and other Christians lost. It's really tiring. How dare you continue to condemn those who believe in UR. They do not condemn you! You are setting yourself up in the place of Christ. I would recommend that you NOT continue doing that.

Heartsong
To the contrary.

It is the rejection of the truth by which those who are condemned remain condemned. It is the Scriptures which present the truth. I have presented the Scriptures. Those who are wise will heed the gracious warnings of the Lord in His written word, whereby He tells of the final and eternal consequences of rejecting Christ. The foolish will not listen.
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Old 06-02-2010, 03:58 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,399,716 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
1 Peter 1:16 because it is written, ''You shall be holy, for I am holy.''
Notice the verse says... SHALL and FOR... How you get that that is a command is beyond me. It is a fact.. YOU WILL BE HOLY BECAUSE I AM HOLY.

Quote:
The purpose of the Mosiac law was to demonstrate that man CAN'T meet the demands of God's holiness and therefore needs a Savior. Since a slave cannot purchase the freedom of another slave, only a free man can. The penalty for sin could only be paid by a free man. Someone not already under the penalty of sin. Someone not already spiritually dead.
Yet you have no proof that Christ was spiritually alive... what proof is there? The disciples performed the same miracles as Jesus did and spread the same message.

1 Cor. 7:22 For he who was a slave when he was called by the Lord is the Lord's freedman; similarly, he who was a free man when he was called is Christ's slave.

It is the calling of the Lord that creates the freedman. Jesus was called and therefore was a freeman. There is nothing that tells us that Jesus was born without sin nature. If he had been born without sin nature then he would not have been tempted to sin and thus would not be tempted as we are!

Quote:
This is why Jesus Christ who being God, had to take the form of a man and come into the world through a virgin birth, to be a substitute for man. Phil 2:5-8
All that passage proves is that Jesus was not controlled by human (sin) nature but emptied himself of his sin desire to follow the will of God and be obedient to death. This is the same thing Christians claim they do when they receive salvation! Why would he have thought it robbery if he was God? Why stress the fact that Christi did NOT think it ROBBERY (stealing what is not yours) if it was his (as God) to begin with! In light of the scripture, your exegesis makes no sense at all!

Quote:
Hebrews 10:10 By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 12) but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, sat down at the right hand of God... 14) For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.
Jesus doesn't have to be sacrificed everytime someone gets "saved," does he? So this was a once and for all event. Never to be repeated. Yet you seem to think it was a once and for some event. Whoever was sinful (all mankind) was redeemed by that ONE event! Yet you say some people (by choice) retain their sin? How is that possible? Also.. how is God sitting at God's right hand? who is on the left? the HS? Are they separate in heaven too? At which point is the three... one?

Quote:
Acts 26:18 ...in order that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me.''
Verse 17 and 18 of Acts 26:
"I will rescue you from your own people [the Jews, specifically the religious leaders] and from the Gentiles. I am sending you to them to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the authority of adversary to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’

This is after God BLINDED Saul... BLINDED HIM! Did Saul choose or was he DRAWN to God? God made him holy by opening his eyes to the truth -

Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free. John 8:32

John 1:17 For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ.

Quote:
The Scriptures have been shown time and time and time yet again, that only those who come to God through faith in Christ can be saved. I will not indulge you here by posting them again.

Christ our Redeemer
You do everyone a disservice when you post verses yet don't understand what they say.

You are right... repeating what you keep saying is going nowhere. What you should do is rethink your dogma and doctrine.
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Old 06-02-2010, 04:00 PM
 
20,324 posts, read 15,687,589 times
Reputation: 7441
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero 7 View Post
I'm going to suggest something that will probably have people from both sides of the debate roll their eyes but here goes.

Scripture this VS. scripture that isn't working. The debate rages on. ET vs. UR. When I believed in ET, I thought the same thing, that UR was non-biblical. Now I have no doubt in UR, none.

Let's put God to the test. I need to pray on this first before I suggest something. I was going to say something like I will pick a random weather or astronomical event that will happen say in the next 2 weeks or so that will be an unquestionable sign. My only worry is if it would pan out people would say, see, it's the power of the devil, he can work wonders too.

So if there are any UR'ers out there that would agree with me on this , please PM me and I will start a new post.
You shall not put the LORD GOD to the test (Deuteronomy 6:16; Matthew 4:7) Scripture is the absolute norm and standard of truth. Those who reject the truth are condemned because they have not believed.
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