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Old 06-04-2010, 10:59 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,386,559 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allen antrim View Post
If a god is offended at men, how could men appease that, if man is the offender? The problem is that god has eternal characteristics; he produces himself without aid from another (the christian god concept) and man has temporal (we all know this one, well except for congressmen); how could temporal characteristics (having nothing or processing nothing and totally dependent on others) satisfy eternal characteristics (having or possessing all and not dependent), especially in that what is temporal is already produced through the eternal-what is temporal has to be produced by something else (god "owns" everything so men have absolutely nothing to give-even their breath is on loan, as it says somewhere)? When god creates, that which is not god is an offense (perfection/imperfection) before him. Something has to block the wrath for the temporal to still have becoming (it does not truly exist except as "moments" {past and future are no longer and not yet}-the need for the doctrine of providence; of course no one likes doctrine now, so everything is muddled and reasons lack for everything as everyone relies on their "heart", ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh, how warm), that is why the bible refers to the blood shed before the foundation of the world and adam implies red dirt. God himself, in the christian scheme, must provide the "block" as only his "block", produced by himself (to avoid the temporal block), and as he does not share his glory with another (says so somewhere)-that is all that withholds his complete wrath and the return of the temporal to complete nothingness.
Is that similar to "I brought you into this world and I can take you out?"
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Old 06-04-2010, 11:03 AM
 
Location: missouri
1,179 posts, read 1,176,473 times
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Hey! Real time typing. How come you are not at work adding to my social security that I will want soon? Yes, it is definitely that, and at any time!
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Old 06-04-2010, 02:14 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,386,559 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allen antrim View Post
Hey! Real time typing. How come you are not at work adding to my social security that I will want soon? Yes, it is definitely that, and at any time!
LOL I am at work!

Good thing you are close to retirement... I have to fend for myself it seems since SS will be bankrupt by the time I need it!

I guess you can't argue with the fact that if God made us he can surely "unmake" us. It reminds me of the verse where it is said not to be afraid of the one who can destroy your body but be afraid of the one that can destroy both body and soul..

Perhaps that is what that verse meant?
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Old 06-04-2010, 03:32 PM
 
3,576 posts, read 453,175 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
LOL I am at work!

Good thing you are close to retirement... I have to fend for myself it seems since SS will be bankrupt by the time I need it!

I guess you can't argue with the fact that if God made us he can surely "unmake" us. It reminds me of the verse where it is said not to be afraid of the one who can destroy your body but be afraid of the one that can destroy both body and soul..

Perhaps that is what that verse meant?
But we also see that the {{{{word}}} of God divides soul and spirit

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.


I believe related to judgment of deeds FOR ALL
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Old 06-04-2010, 03:33 PM
 
3,576 posts, read 453,175 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Is that similar to "I brought you into this world and I can take you out?"
Totally
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Old 06-04-2010, 04:41 PM
 
26 posts, read 20,226 times
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Isaiah 53


1 Who has believed our message
and to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?
2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot,
and like a root out of dry ground.
He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,
nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.
3 He was despised and rejected by men,
a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering.
Like one from whom men hide their faces
he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
4 Surely he took up our infirmities
and carried our sorrows,
yet we considered him stricken by God,
smitten by him, and afflicted.
5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was upon him,
and by his wounds we are healed.
6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to his own way;
and the LORD has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.
7 He was oppressed and afflicted,
yet he did not open his mouth;
he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,
and as a sheep before her shearers is silent,
so he did not open his mouth.
8 By oppression [a] and judgment he was taken away.
And who can speak of his descendants?
For he was cut off from the land of the living;
for the transgression of my people he was stricken. [b]
9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked,
and with the rich in his death,
though he had done no violence,
nor was any deceit in his mouth. 10 Yet it was the LORD's will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
and though the LORD makes [c] his life a guilt offering,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
and the will of the LORD will prosper in his hand.

Psalm 89:32
I will punish their sin with the rod, their iniquity with flogging;
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Old 03-04-2012, 09:11 AM
 
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God did not sacrifice Jesus to himself, but to us, for one sacrifices to something or somene to receive something from them and what God wanted to receive, he wanted to receive from us.
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Old 03-04-2012, 09:44 AM
 
115 posts, read 95,979 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
I think the Jews were angry because they thought a man not yet fifty could not possibly understand God and God's will more than they could...
I don't think that the Pope understands God and God's will more than I do, but that doesn't make me angry, so there has to be more to it than that.
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Old 03-04-2012, 10:15 AM
 
1,534 posts, read 1,592,955 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
David (who was not God) said the same thing:
Psalm 40:8 I desire to do your will, O my God; your law is within my heart."

Psalm 37:31 The law of his God is in his heart; His steps do not slip.

God didn't need to inhabit a body in order for the body to do his will. That was my point.

Did Jesus have a favorite color? food? Song ?

I cannot find one reason, in scripture, for God to come down as a human.
I have not read this entire thread so if this has already been said I apologize.


Quote:
I cannot find one reason, in scripture, for God to come down as a human.
I have said this several times an cannot stress enough about studying the OT. Why is the OT so important? Because, for lack of a better way to say it, it's the 'dictionary' of/for the NT. If we want to understand the 'why's' and "what fors" of the NT we need to look in the OT.

In regards to this subject the OT tells us, after King Solomon died, the Israelites were seperated into two houses: The House of Judah [Judah/Benjamin] and the House of Israel [the other tribes/nations].

Now as to God coming as a man....let's go to the OT and see the reason God came in the flesh.

First let's look at the book of Hosea and Jeremiah:

Ho 1:9 Then said God, [to Hosea] Call his name Loammi: [means not my people] for ye are not my people, and I will not be your God.

Ho 2:2 Plead with your mother, plead: for she is not my wife, neither am I her husband: let her therefore put away her whoredoms out of her sight, and her adulteries from between her breasts;

Ho 2:7 And she shall follow after her lovers, but she shall not overtake them; and she shall seek them, but shall not find them: then shall she say, I will go and return to my first husband; for then was it better with me than now.

Jeremiah 3:1 "They say, If a man put away his wife, and she go from him, and become another man's, shall he return unto her again? shall not that land be greatly polluted? but thou hast played the harlot with many lovers; yet return again to me, saith YHVH." [See Deut. 24:1-4]

Jer 3:7 And I said after she [house of Israel] had done all these things, Turn thou unto me. But she returned not. And her treacherous sister Judah saw it.
8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery [idolatry] I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.

So what happened to the 10 tribes/nations, House of Israel? They were scattered among the nations and lost their identity:

Ho 2:23a And I will sow her unto me in the earth;

But the 'day' came when they were once again called, "Ammi," my people: Ho 2:23b and I will have mercy upon her that had not obtained mercy; and I will say to them which were not my people, Thou art my people; and they shall say, Thou art my God.

Has this happened yet? Yes. When?

When Messiah came as God in the flesh to seek that which was lost, and to His ppl He had divorced, who'd lost their identity, and were sitting in darkness. Or as He stated in Matt. 15:24," I came only for the lost sheep of the House of Israel."

So who are these ppl? They're natural Israel [10 tribes] and those who believe the gospel and are grafted in.

We in the West tend to call ourselves 'gentile' Christians. However we are not gentiles [heathen] but Israel; if we believe and obey.

Last edited by mshipmate; 03-04-2012 at 10:23 AM..
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Old 03-04-2012, 01:42 PM
 
37,496 posts, read 25,232,088 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
David (who was not God) said the same thing:
Psalm 40:8 I desire to do your will, O my God; your law is within my heart."
Psalm 37:31 The law of his God is in his heart; His steps do not slip.
God didn't need to inhabit a body in order for the body to do his will. That was my point.
Did Jesus have a favorite color? food? Song ?
I cannot find one reason, in scripture, for God to come down as a human.
The reason is obvious . . . no human prior to Christ (and even after Him to this day) . . . was capable of a consciousness characterized by perfect agape love (identical to God's). That meant our collective human consciousness would be forever separate ("out of tune" and dissonant) from God's consciousness.
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