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View Poll Results: Is worshipping Jesus idolotry?
No, Jesus is God and man so it is not idolatry. 8 61.54%
No, worshipping Jesus is worshipping his God part. 1 7.69%
Yes, Jesus was a man therefore it is idolatry to worship him. 4 30.77%
Yes, Jesus although God-man is still a man and it is idolatry. 0 0%
Voters: 13. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-20-2018, 11:33 AM
 
16,081 posts, read 9,255,565 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Worship means worthy of respect...
Yes and that is why David was worshiped at the same time as God and with the same act. The word means honor, respect and only religious worship in context. When God told the angels to worship Jesus, he told them to honor him as ... king. The context is his being God's son and a King, not being God.


Translations using "worship" are guided by theology not the word meaning and use. In 1611 as an example many men were called "your worship". It meant even then, honor and respect.


KJV Hebrews 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.



The verses say he is NOT God who is his father, he is a king and has a better name than the angels not because he is God, but he was given a name he did not have at one time and ... he has a God above him. No equality.



Being called God/theos does not make anyone The God, it shows an appointment as God appointed Moses as God to Pharaoh and the angels are also called God as well as many men such as judges. The idea of God VS god is missing as neither Hebrew or Greek in Biblical times used capital letters. They spelled the word "ELOHIM/GOD and THEOS/GOD with the same letters. Obviously when we speak the word no difference is seen, so context not theology rules the meaning.
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Old 08-20-2018, 11:49 AM
 
20,299 posts, read 15,651,035 times
Reputation: 7415
Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
Yes and that is why David was worshiped at the same time as God and with the same act. The word means honor, respect and only religious worship in context. When God told the angels to worship Jesus, he told them to honor him as ... king. The context is his being God's son and a King, not being God.


Translations using "worship" are guided by theology not the word meaning and use. In 1611 as an example many men were called "your worship". It meant even then, honor and respect.


KJV Hebrews 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.



The verses say he is NOT God who is his father, he is a king and has a better name than the angels not because he is God, but he was given a name he did not have at one time and ... he has a God above him. No equality.



Being called God/theos does not make anyone The God, it shows an appointment as God appointed Moses as God to Pharaoh and the angels are also called God as well as many men such as judges. The idea of God VS god is missing as neither Hebrew or Greek in Biblical times used capital letters. They spelled the word "ELOHIM/GOD and THEOS/GOD with the same letters. Obviously when we speak the word no difference is seen, so context not theology rules the meaning.
You are ignoring the fact that Hebrews 1:10 which states that the LORD in the beginning laid the foundations of the earth and that the heavens are the works of His hands, is referring to Jesus. The writer of Hebrews has God the Father saying what is recorded in verse 10 to God the Son.

Jesus is God just as the Father is, but He is not the Father. He is the Son. He is the person of the Godhead who did the actual work of creation. While the Son has the same essence or nature as the Father, there is an authority structure within the Godhead.
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Old 08-20-2018, 04:30 PM
 
Location: US
26,264 posts, read 13,930,302 times
Reputation: 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
You are ignoring the fact that Hebrews 1:10 which states that the LORD in the beginning laid the foundations of the earth and that the heavens are the works of His hands, is referring to Jesus. The writer of Hebrews has God the Father saying what is recorded in verse 10 to God the Son.

Jesus is God just as the Father is, but He is not the Father. He is the Son. He is the person of the Godhead who did the actual work of creation. While the Son has the same essence or nature as the Father, there is an authority structure within the Godhead.
He was a Demi-god...
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Old 08-20-2018, 04:31 PM
 
Location: US
26,264 posts, read 13,930,302 times
Reputation: 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
Yes and that is why David was worshiped at the same time as God and with the same act. The word means honor, respect and only religious worship in context. When God told the angels to worship Jesus, he told them to honor him as ... king. The context is his being God's son and a King, not being God.


Translations using "worship" are guided by theology not the word meaning and use. In 1611 as an example many men were called "your worship". It meant even then, honor and respect.


KJV Hebrews 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.



The verses say he is NOT God who is his father, he is a king and has a better name than the angels not because he is God, but he was given a name he did not have at one time and ... he has a God above him. No equality.



Being called God/theos does not make anyone The God, it shows an appointment as God appointed Moses as God to Pharaoh and the angels are also called God as well as many men such as judges. The idea of God VS god is missing as neither Hebrew or Greek in Biblical times used capital letters. They spelled the word "ELOHIM/GOD and THEOS/GOD with the same letters. Obviously when we speak the word no difference is seen, so context not theology rules the meaning.
We’re you the one that told me that I was correct?...
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Old 08-20-2018, 08:37 PM
 
20,299 posts, read 15,651,035 times
Reputation: 7415
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
He was a Demi-god...
No, not a demi-god. Jesus is presented as being the Creator of the heavens and the earth in the New Testament, which is an act attributed to God in the Old Testament. The writer of Hebrews takes Psalm 102:25-27 which refers to Yahweh (Psalm 102 is a prayer addressed to Yahweh) and applies it to Jesus in Hebrews 1:10-12. In fact, the writer of Hebrews has God the Father speaking the words in Hebrews 1:10-12 to the Son. A simple comparison bears this out to anyone taking the time to do so.

Don't take my word for it. Do the comparison and see for yourself.
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Old 08-20-2018, 09:39 PM
Status: "Amused by BF/V." (set 6 hours ago)
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
23,325 posts, read 12,073,882 times
Reputation: 10641
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
No, not a demi-god. Jesus is presented as being the Creator of the heavens and the earth in the New Testament, which is an act attributed to God in the Old Testament. The writer of Hebrews takes Psalm 102:25-27 which refers to Yahweh (Psalm 102 is a prayer addressed to Yahweh) and applies it to Jesus in Hebrews 1:10-12. In fact, the writer of Hebrews has God the Father speaking the words in Hebrews 1:10-12 to the Son. A simple comparison bears this out to anyone taking the time to do so.

Don't take my word for it. Do the comparison and see for yourself.

And it must be true because anonymous, primitive men said other anonymous primitive men were channeling god when they made up stories to explain what they did not understand.
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Old 08-21-2018, 06:38 AM
 
957 posts, read 716,135 times
Reputation: 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by RainMusic View Post
Jesus told us to worship the Heavenly Father in Spirit and in Truth. He taught us to pray to the Father.

I think this is a very difficult question. I honestly do not think I'm certain what the right answer is.

A lot of us have been raised in churches that are very "Jesus conscious" and not as focused on the Heavenly Father.

Sigh. Everyone is making this more complex than it needs to be...One God....He Himself enters the physical realm to become one of us and ends us saving us (from ourselves by the way). His name..Jesus. When you pray to Him, your praying to the Father. When you pray to the Father, your also praying to the Son. One God.
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Old 08-21-2018, 07:02 AM
 
Location: Southwestern, USA
12,681 posts, read 10,752,997 times
Reputation: 14873
Ya can't take the idea that Jesus was God incarnate away from people...they need
a figure, a tangible person to pray to thinking he is God.
Otherwise , 'God' is just too abstract...and they make up wild things about Him.
Let 'em talk to God through Jesus, already.

(I know, I know, it's that pushing all that onto others that is the problem.) Oh well.
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Old 08-21-2018, 04:08 PM
 
Location: US
26,264 posts, read 13,930,302 times
Reputation: 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
No, not a demi-god. Jesus is presented as being the Creator of the heavens and the earth in the New Testament, which is an act attributed to God in the Old Testament. The writer of Hebrews takes Psalm 102:25-27 which refers to Yahweh (Psalm 102 is a prayer addressed to Yahweh) and applies it to Jesus in Hebrews 1:10-12. In fact, the writer of Hebrews has God the Father speaking the words in Hebrews 1:10-12 to the Son. A simple comparison bears this out to anyone taking the time to do so.

Don't take my word for it. Do the comparison and see for yourself.
Ok, a Demi-god...Got it...Thanks...
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Old 08-21-2018, 04:10 PM
 
Location: US
26,264 posts, read 13,930,302 times
Reputation: 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero 7 View Post
Sigh. Everyone is making this more complex than it needs to be...One God....He Himself enters the physical realm to become one of us and ends us saving us (from ourselves by the way). His name..Jesus. When you pray to Him, your praying to the Father. When you pray to the Father, your also praying to the Son. One God.
So, being G-d, he sacrificed nothing?...
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