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View Poll Results: Is worshipping Jesus idolotry?
No, Jesus is God and man so it is not idolatry. 8 61.54%
No, worshipping Jesus is worshipping his God part. 1 7.69%
Yes, Jesus was a man therefore it is idolatry to worship him. 4 30.77%
Yes, Jesus although God-man is still a man and it is idolatry. 0 0%
Voters: 13. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-03-2010, 05:17 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,430 posts, read 7,843,628 times
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Idolatry defined:
Easton's Bible DictionaryImage-worship or divine honour paid to any created object. Paul describes the origin of idolatry in Romans 1:21-25: men forsook God, and sank into ignorance and moral corruption (1:28).
The forms of idolatry are,
(1.) Fetishism, or the worship of trees, rivers, hills, stones, etc.
(2.) Nature worship, the worship of the sun, moon, and stars, as the supposed powers of nature.
(3.) Hero worship, the worship of deceased ancestors, or of heroes.
Bible Dictionary: Idolatry


How sure are you that Jesus is God? If you are sure then why is his human name (Jesus) used in worship? Are you worshiping a created being or God?


It is clear in the bible that Jesus was a man.... how clear is it that he is God?


If you use the name Jesus isn't that the name of the man and therefore you are worshiping the man and not God?


I am curious to find out how strong people's convictions are about the nature of Jesus....


Also, if Jesus is God why pray or worship Jesus by name.. why not simply pray to/worship God? Isn't that the same thing?
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Old 06-03-2010, 05:30 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,163,983 times
Reputation: 435
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Idolatry defined:
Easton's Bible DictionaryImage-worship or divine honour paid to any created object. Paul describes the origin of idolatry in Romans 1:21-25: men forsook God, and sank into ignorance and moral corruption (1:28).
The forms of idolatry are,
(1.) Fetishism, or the worship of trees, rivers, hills, stones, etc.
(2.) Nature worship, the worship of the sun, moon, and stars, as the supposed powers of nature.
(3.) Hero worship, the worship of deceased ancestors, or of heroes.
Bible Dictionary: Idolatry


How sure are you that Jesus is God? If you are sure then why is his human name (Jesus) used in worship? Are you worshiping a created being or God?


It is clear in the bible that Jesus was a man.... how clear is it that he is God?


If you use the name Jesus isn't that the name of the man and therefore you are worshiping the man and not God?


I am curious to find out how strong people's convictions are about the nature of Jesus....


Also, if Jesus is God why pray or worship Jesus by name.. why not simply pray to/worship God? Isn't that the same thing?
I'm too confused to answer this one, katjonjj. Sorry. I'm still studying.

Bible-truths.com has this down pretty well, I think. They have message boards over there, also. That's the L. Ray Smith site. Smith says the trinity is a foul doctrine, but he still believes that Jesus is God. I'm still trying to figure it out.

L. Ray Smith - Is God a Closed TRINITY or an Open FAMILY?
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Old 06-03-2010, 05:30 PM
 
3,225 posts, read 187,663 times
Reputation: 351
Kat

To me it seems you and Mike are at polar opposites and I do not agree with either of you ------------ I think you are trying to see Jesus as only man, the physical........ and Mike thinks he is God in his own right, whereas Jesus says what he has been given, was given to him by his Father.



How I see it is that he is the Son of God - I do not believe that Jesus was "eternally begotten" ie trinity but he is God's son, representative, king, he is king of kings, he is our head, and his head is God. We have access to God through Christ........

Last edited by Meerkat2; 06-03-2010 at 05:45 PM..
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Old 06-03-2010, 05:38 PM
 
Location: RV Park
7,517 posts, read 10,935,865 times
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You make an excellent observation; one that many people don't realize what they're envisioning with their ----wait for it! ---- carnal minds!

"Yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth (from this time on) know we Him no more" (II Cor. 5:16).

The story that is chronicled in the Gospels and has been trumpeted by the church systems for two thousand years is one about the Jesus that is forever gone, never to walk the paths of earth again. What we need is a revelation of the present glory of Jesus Christ! Where is Jesus now? What is He doing now? What is He like now? Revelation begins right at the beginning with Jesus alive, Jesus incorruptible and immortal, Jesus ascended, Jesus glorified, Jesus crowned, Jesus enthroned, Jesus formed in His body, Jesus reigning in and through His many brethren, Jesus manifested, revealed, and unveiled in His people, the corporate Son, and Jesus coming and coming and continuing to come from one degree of glory to another, Jesus triumphant as Lord of all.
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Old 06-03-2010, 05:58 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,430 posts, read 7,843,628 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meerkat2 View Post
Kat

To me it seems you and Mike are at polar opposites and I do not agree with either of you ------------ I think you are trying to see Jesus as only man, the physical........ and Mike thinks he is God in his own right, whereas Jesus says what he has been given, was given to him by his Father.



How I see it is that he is the Son of God - I do not believe that Jesus was "eternally begotten" ie trinity but he is God's son, representative, king, he is king of kings, he is our head, and his head is God. We have access to God through Christ........
I would agree to all this... my point is that in saying the name Jesus (regardless of whether he is or is not God) that refers to him as a man... but wouldn't that be idolatry or man-worship if you will?

I do see Jesus as a man. I don't see any difference between what Jesus was and what any other human was/is other than Jesus was very in tune with God through the spirit of God. All humans have the spirit of God at their disposal, yet no one has reached quite the same level of trust/faith in God that Jesus did... does that make him a celestial being... I don't see that.

I see all those titles and yet most of us wear many hats... Yet do those hats define us or is being human just that... being human.

I think that if God came down as a human then once that human body he inhabited is dead then he would cease being human and simply be God.. so regardless of whether I agree that Jesus is God-man it stands to reason that once Jesus died... Jesus the human shouldn't be worshiped...
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Old 06-03-2010, 06:01 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,430 posts, read 7,843,628 times
Reputation: 1680
Quote:
Originally Posted by little elmer View Post
You make an excellent observation; one that many people don't realize what they're envisioning with their ----wait for it! ---- carnal minds!

"Yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth (from this time on) know we Him no more" (II Cor. 5:16).

The story that is chronicled in the Gospels and has been trumpeted by the church systems for two thousand years is one about the Jesus that is forever gone, never to walk the paths of earth again. What we need is a revelation of the present glory of Jesus Christ! Where is Jesus now? What is He doing now? What is He like now? Revelation begins right at the beginning with Jesus alive, Jesus incorruptible and immortal, Jesus ascended, Jesus glorified, Jesus crowned, Jesus enthroned, Jesus formed in His body, Jesus reigning in and through His many brethren, Jesus manifested, revealed, and unveiled in His people, the corporate Son, and Jesus coming and coming and continuing to come from one degree of glory to another, Jesus triumphant as Lord of all.
Yes... that is what I am inquiring about.. thanks for the verse. Why do people still pray to Jesus when that is the name of his flesh. Doesn't that mean that by praying to or worshiping Jesus one is really worshiping and praying to flesh?

But then we have Jesus giving all that he was entrusted to back to God so that God is all in all. So at some point does Jesus the flesh cease to exist?

How does that work for trinitarians?

I must admit the more I study the more questions I have so please forgive me if it seems redundant. I am searching not trying to prove anything.
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Old 06-03-2010, 06:10 PM
 
3,225 posts, read 187,663 times
Reputation: 351
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
I would agree to all this... my point is that in saying the name Jesus (regardless of whether he is or is not God) that refers to him as a man... but wouldn't that be idolatry or man-worship if you will?

I do see Jesus as a man. I don't see any difference between what Jesus was and what any other human was/is other than Jesus was very in tune with God through the spirit of God. All humans have the spirit of God at their disposal, yet no one has reached quite the same level of trust/faith in God that Jesus did... does that make him a celestial being... I don't see that.

I see all those titles and yet most of us wear many hats... Yet do those hats define us or is being human just that... being human.

I think that if God came down as a human then once that human body he inhabited is dead then he would cease being human and simply be God.. so regardless of whether I agree that Jesus is God-man it stands to reason that once Jesus died... Jesus the human shouldn't be worshiped...
It is the resurrection that is the important bit

What do you think it means that we are the body of Christ and he is our "head" and that all will be gathered together "in Christ" ?
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Old 06-03-2010, 06:17 PM
 
7,390 posts, read 5,931,089 times
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Jesus the Son of Man is God and Worshipping him is adored in Heaven. There is nothing idolatry about it.....
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Old 06-03-2010, 06:24 PM
 
3,225 posts, read 187,663 times
Reputation: 351
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Yes... that is what I am inquiring about.. thanks for the verse. Why do people still pray to Jesus when that is the name of his flesh. Doesn't that mean that by praying to or worshiping Jesus one is really worshiping and praying to flesh?

But then we have Jesus giving all that he was entrusted to back to God so that God is all in all. So at some point does Jesus the flesh cease to exist?

How does that work for trinitarians?

I must admit the more I study the more questions I have so please forgive me if it seems redundant. I am searching not trying to prove anything.
Kat I understand your searching, I am doing the same and still have lots of questions

What is Jesus new name?

Rom 1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
Rom 1:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
Rom 1:6 Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:
Rom 1:7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Rom 1:8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.

Edit to add:-

Is Jesus new name his authority over all given to him by God?

Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds {{ages}};
Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
Heb 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
Heb 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
Heb 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
Heb 1:7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
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Old 06-03-2010, 06:24 PM
 
Location: Nashville, TN
2,031 posts, read 2,536,296 times
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Matthew 28:8-10 "So they left the tomb quickly, with fear and great joy, and ran to tell his disciples. But Jesus met them, saying, “Greetings!” They came to him, held on to his feet and worshiped him. Then Jesus said to them, “Do not be afraid. Go and tell my brothers to go to Galilee. They will see me there.”"

Jesus is God and I'll worship Him like these women did.
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