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Old 06-04-2010, 09:06 AM
 
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Many a doctrine is like a window pane. We see truth through it but it divides us from truth.

Kahlil Gibran - A beautiful Poet
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Old 06-04-2010, 10:05 AM
 
Location: missouri
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The scripture is good for doctrine, or so itself says somewhere (this is a christian thread). Kierkegaard said all poets are liars (odd coming from him!). If we see through a glass darkly now-even with scripture, heretics use scripture, if men still think, and all use just their mindless hearts-childlike (and look at it all), then doctrine seems like a good thing, and it takes doctrine to know doctrine. Poetics lay in what was called the immediate. A child like place without reflection. Man is supposed to rise above this and enter the world of thought (not lose poetry of course as it adds a character to our existence) and to understand himself and the world around him. Doctrine is the structure for this in religion; I think in Hebrews somewhere, the writer chews them out for still sucking a teet, rather than getting into solid food. So yeah, many doctrines hide the truth, but more is hidden without them. Without doctrine one is left to oneself, enclosed up, doctrine brings one into the social, into participation, into communication.
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Old 06-04-2010, 12:20 PM
 
20,299 posts, read 15,647,071 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by howgreatthouart View Post
Many a doctrine is like a window pane. We see truth through it but it divides us from truth.

Kahlil Gibran - A beautiful Poet
2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is God-breathed, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17) That the man of God may be mature, throughly furnished unto all good works.

2 Timothy 4:2 preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction.

2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themslves teachers in accordance to their own desires; 4) and will turn away their ears from the truth, and will turn aside to myths.

Matthew 10:34 “Think not that I came to send peace on the earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. 35) For I came to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.” 36) and a man's enemies will be the members of his household. 37) ''He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. 38) ''And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. 39) ''He who has found his life shall lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake shall find it.

Bible Doctrine-Truth divides those who are in the truth from those who reject it.

Sola Scriptura!!!

Last edited by Mike555; 06-04-2010 at 12:54 PM..
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Old 06-04-2010, 01:04 PM
juj
 
Location: Too far from MSG
1,657 posts, read 2,284,317 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is God-breathed, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17) That the man of God may be mature, throughly furnished unto all good works.

2 Timothy 4:2 preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction.

2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themslves teachers in accordance to their own desires; 4) and will turn away their ears from the truth, and will turn aside to myths.

Matthew 10:34 “Think not that I came to send peace on the earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. 35) For I came to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.” 36) and a man's enemies will be the members of his household. 37) ''He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. 38) ''And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. 39) ''He who has found his life shall lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake shall find it.

Bible Doctrine-Truth divides those who are in the truth from those who reject it.

Sola Scriptura!!!
That just says the Bible is useful for righteousness. That Bible also says to hold true to traditions whether spoken or written. The Bible CANNOT intrepret itself. Folks are getting duped by what sounds more palatable to them by either reading the Bible in a vacuum or listening or reading the interpretation of "visionaries" like yourself.

Sola Scriptura has led to total chaos and doctrinal anarchy which apparently you prefer.

It should be called "Everyone man for himself Scriptura".
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Old 06-04-2010, 01:09 PM
 
139 posts, read 165,616 times
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The bible is beautiful recorded words of the saints as they were moved by the holy spirit to write and they hold truth that can only be told to us with the voice of the Spirit
Their purpose is to lead us to the Truth, lead us to the source of life.
We must open the window climb through it and walk with the Truth,walk in the light..not jsut sit behind the window and admire it... Bring the Scriptures to life in our own life and Bear the Fruits

God bless.
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Old 06-04-2010, 01:27 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,721,192 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by howgreatthouart View Post
Their purpose is to lead us to the Truth, lead us to the source of life.
Yes. The bible is like a road map. The map is a tool to help us reach our destination (which is to know God). If you plan a trip to see a friend, and study the map, even memorize the map, that will not help you to experience anything real or to build a relationship with your friend. You have to start moving and travel toward your destination before you can arrive where your friend is and build up the relationship.

And if you just let the map interpret the map, it's going to get tough when there's road construction and you have to take a detour. That's when you need to pick up the cell phone and listen to your friend's instructions to make sure you're on the right road!!
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Old 06-04-2010, 01:45 PM
 
20,299 posts, read 15,647,071 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juj View Post
That just says the Bible is useful for righteousness.
To the contrary!!!

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.

1) Profitable for doctrine.

2) Profitable for reproof.

3) Profitable for correction.

4) Profitable for instruction in righteousness
.


Quote:
That Bible also says to hold true to traditions whether spoken or written. The Bible CANNOT intrepret itself. Folks are getting duped by what sounds more palatable to them by either reading the Bible in a vacuum or listening or reading the interpretation of "visionaries" like yourself.

Sola Scriptura has led to total chaos and doctrinal anarchy which apparently you prefer.
Here is what the scriptures say about the traditions of men!!!

The Bible is the absolute norm and standard for truth. The traditions of men are only of use when they line up with the Scriptures.

Mark 7:6 And He said to them, ''Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written,
'THIS PEOPLE HONORS ME WITH THEIR
LIPS,
BUT THEIR HEART IS FAR AWAY FROM
ME,
7 'BUT IN VAIN DO THEY WORSHIP ME,
TEACHING AS DOCTRINES THE PRECEPTS OF MEN.'

8 ''Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.'' 9) He was also saying to them, ''You nicely set aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition.

13 thus invalidation the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.



Colossians 2:8 See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.
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Old 06-04-2010, 01:52 PM
 
139 posts, read 165,616 times
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Old 06-04-2010, 02:06 PM
 
Location: missouri
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Sola Scriptura was for an establishing protestantism-a social system, and therefore, composed of communications. Sola Scriptura was the basis for entrance and exit requirements and established the only source of doctrine (communications). So blaming it for the present confusion is pretty nonsensical as it implies one primary source not multiple sources (besides one can really only blame the individual persons for the confusion-doctrines are abstractions and don't carry guns-even though american indians don't think so-hahaha). It did nothing to confuse things but was to clarify where the information was coming from. In the catholics, stuff was coming from all sorts of places because multiple sources were at it epistemological basis. With Lutheran Schielermacher (about late 1700s early 1800s), the return of other sources entered protestantism (he has a very big following today even though many never heard of him), particularly "feelings" and a "god consciousness", and aesthetics (and all that term implies)-this situation creates a very subjective or private religion, rather than a social situation where men must come to agreement on what matters because the bible says so-objectivity. Now one or religion, has to take in subjectivity which is as multiple as there are numbers of people. This destroyed sola scriptura and returned protestants back to catholicism with a gripe about the pope. Social systems evolve, what is happening today is abstract individualism-a socially created category along with its psychological mistress free will (not true individualism, as that would ground one in ethics), one always creates the god in one's image if one isn't careful, so the state now is roughly multiple personal (subjective) gods with the primary source for information about that god derived from the social context but assumed to be delivered straight to the individual's heart (coming from all sorts of places; bad sandwiches, gas, a love for Tabby and kitty heaven, fairness, and etc), while even using the same name for the god.
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Old 06-04-2010, 02:19 PM
 
20,299 posts, read 15,647,071 times
Reputation: 7409
Quote:
Originally Posted by allen antrim View Post
Sola Scriptura was for an establishing protestantism-a social system, and therefore, composed of communications. Sola Scriptura was the basis for entrance and exit requirements and established the only source of doctrine (communications). So blaming it for the present confusion is pretty nonsensical as it implies one primary source not multiple sources (besides one can really only blame the individual persons for the confusion-doctrines are abstractions and don't carry guns-even though american indians don't think so-hahaha). It did nothing to confuse things but was to clarify where the information was coming from. In the catholics, stuff was coming from all sorts of places because multiple sources were at it epistemological basis. With Lutheran Schielermacher (about late 1700s early 1800s), the return of other sources entered protestantism (he has a very big following today even though many never heard of him), particularly "feelings" and a "god consciousness", and aesthetics (and all that term implies)-this situation creates a very subjective or private religion, rather than a social situation where men must come to agreement on what matters because the bible says so-objectivity. Now one or religion, has to take in subjectivity which is as multiple as there are numbers of people. This destroyed sola scriptura and returned protestants back to catholicism with a gripe about the pope. Social systems evolve, what is happening today is abstract individualism-a socially created category along with its psychological mistress free will (not true individualism, as that would ground one in ethics), one always creates the god in one's image if one isn't careful, so the state now is roughly multiple personal (subjective) gods with the primary source for information about that god derived from the social context but assumed to be delivered straight to the individual's heart (coming from all sorts of places; bad sandwiches, gas, a love for Tabby and kitty heaven, fairness, and etc), while even using the same name for the god.
The Bible and the Bible alone is the source of the Church-age believers instructions for executing the Christian way of life. Anything that contradicts the Scriptures is of Satan's cosmic system. Sola Scriptura!!!

I have shown the Scriptures, and they speak for themselves. And that is all I am going to say about it.
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