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So sorry to hear about your friend ahigherway....it always strikes me as so very sad when I hear of someone so young losing their life. He was the same age as me.
I agree with everyone else that you should not comment about your beliefs unless they ask. If they do ask, then you can tell them that he is with God and leave it at that.
Brian... was this hypothetical or do you truly plan on confronting the parents? I assumed it was hypothetical to make a point about Christian hope...
I assumed it was a hypothetical question, too! Hypothetical questions on this forum can generate a lot of discussion. If a believer of Jesus lacks grace, anything else we say or do for Christ is a moot point!!
Yea i do not see the words "no hope" in that verse ... But you are welcome to add them to the scripture if you like, just don't expect me to agree with you.
This is called "argumentum ad ignorantiam" ...
Here is a link that might help understand what this logical fallacy is ...
Awwwww.....the exact words are not there. awwwww...
You really see John 3:16 as an ignorant argument ? ?
No, there is no reason to add anything to it, because it says it all. The hope is there (eternal life), and the consequence of rejecting Christ is there, so it's all there.
What if it's the other way around? By doing works you purify your heart and only that way you can really and fully accept Jesus?
What if, what if.... Well, it isn't the other way round. Not according to the Bible.
Quote:
Because if it's the way you say, we would expect those who accepted Jesus to be much better people than the rest. If simply accepting Jesus was that transforming that you can escape hell itself, we would expect obvious changes. When you look at things like, say, divorce rates Christians don't look that much better than the rest
The obvious changes are there if you look. If you look at people who have accepted Christ, you see the changes.
Yes, it is what it is. Obviously there is nothing gracious about the ET version of the gospel. That's why I reject it. I don't reject God or Christ - I reject the doctrine
I don't see how you can reject the scripture without rejecting God, but I will leave that to be worked out between you and God.
Hi all,
a friend of mine, fighting cancer for the last couple of years, died today. He was 47.
As a tribute to him, I thought I'd start a thread about the Christian's hope.
(I'm quite sure he never "accepted Jesus as his Lord and Savior.")
Any thoughts?
Should I tell his parents he went to heaven or hell?
Blessings to all,
brian
Sorry about your friend.
What you should do is be there for the family and try not to use your friends death as a platform for a debate such as this.
Hi everybody,
I want to start by saying THANK YOU ALL for your posts. I liked every single one of them, and they are very appreciated. (I noticed that the "views" column jumped from 60 something to over 600! Weird!)
I did in fact lose a friend yesterday, it was not a hypothetical situation. His name was Giovanni, and although we talked often about the Lord, I don't think he ever had a "conversion experience."
Finn is right, I'm not an ETer, and I won't talk to his parents about hell, although I don't necessarily believe it doesn't exist. How can I know exactly what it is if I've never seen it?? Oh yes, people have tried to "describe" it to me, but I don't think they really know either..
At any rate, the question about mentioning heaven or hell was provocative, and I think Giovanni would have smiled to see me ask this, because he knew well how religion uses the Bible for their own ends, and it's good to talk about things honestly. Kat said it well: "why don't we just come out and say it: your son is dead and now in hell. If that's the message we preach, then SAY IT." But we just can't. Especially when the rubber hits the road. I wonder why..
And even if they believe it, it's as though they really don't. And if it's too cruel to say to the parents in mourning, could it be any less cruel to actually inflict it upon someone?
Another question I might've asked was, "why did Giovanni only have 47 years to accept Christ? Others have more than double the time!" Is this "fair?" (also provocatory )
On a different note, I've really been interested in the book of Job in recent months, and it even tells us that God USES pain and affliction in order to teach us, and that He speaks through pain. This intrigues me, and is most definitely worth a new thread, if anyone is interested?
Thanks again to everyone for the compassion expressed here. It really is true that the love of believers is special, and I felt it from everyone here. I hope I can "give some back" someday, when necessary. (I don't read all threads here, so sometimes I miss things.)
Hi everybody,
I want to start by saying THANK YOU ALL for your posts. I liked every single one of them, and they are very appreciated. (I noticed that the "views" column jumped from 60 something to over 600! Weird!)
I did in fact lose a friend yesterday, it was not a hypothetical situation. His name was Giovanni, and although we talked often about the Lord, I don't think he ever had a "conversion experience."
Finn is right, I'm not an ETer, and I won't talk to his parents about hell, although I don't necessarily believe it doesn't exist. How can I know exactly what it is if I've never seen it?? Oh yes, people have tried to "describe" it to me, but I don't think they really know either..
At any rate, the question about mentioning heaven or hell was provocative, and I think Giovanni would have smiled to see me ask this, because he knew well how religion uses the Bible for their own ends, and it's good to talk about things honestly. Kat said it well: "why don't we just come out and say it: your son is dead and now in hell. If that's the message we preach, then SAY IT." But we just can't. Especially when the rubber hits the road. I wonder why..
And even if they believe it, it's as though they really don't. And if it's too cruel to say to the parents in mourning, could it be any less cruel to actually inflict it upon someone?
Another question I might've asked was, "why did Giovanni only have 47 years to accept Christ? Others have more than double the time!" Is this "fair?" (also provocatory )
On a different note, I've really been interested in the book of Job in recent months, and it even tells us that God USES pain and affliction in order to teach us, and that He speaks through pain. This intrigues me, and is most definitely worth a new thread, if anyone is interested?
Thanks again to everyone for the compassion expressed here. It really is true that the love of believers is special, and I felt it from everyone here. I hope I can "give some back" someday, when necessary. (I don't read all threads here, so sometimes I miss things.)
Blessings and thanks to all,
brian
Well I knew you were just posing a hypothetical/provocative question....I know what you believe. It's interesting to see the responses though. Again, I'm sorry for your loss and I think that someone started a thread on "suffering" just recently...have to go and look.
Edit to add: I can't find the thread ahigherway so maybe you should start another one?
Last edited by Ilene Wright; 06-08-2010 at 09:46 AM..
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I hoped it was hypothetical!
)