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Man are you out to lunch. The UAW has made many concessions and in the deal will become a part owner of the company. Now my conservative economic playbook teaches that now that the workers have a direct stake in the company they'll do all they can to improve the economic health of the company. Does your conservative economic theory teach something different?
In any event the company went down the tubes because of financial and engineering decisions made by management. Capable management deals with unions and prospers, you know, like Bechtel does.
Perhaps you're of the opinion that companies can only make money if they employ servile and supine workers? Faceless lickspittles who shuffle, doff their caps and knuckle their foreheads when the boss comes around?
It's already starting to happen, American Axle (UAW) in Detroit is going to Mexico. I'm all for the working guy, but do it like they do it in Alabama. $18 and hour is plenty for assenly line work.
Well when Fiat was in this country bascially they failed to sell against those same companies they will now be competeting against. The government will appoint five board members and Fiat three.Political appointed members and then foreign appointed members don't seem to good to me to get a company that has failed to basically sale to really compete. Its clear that it has little to do with producing what the consumer wants; rather looks more like a combination of rejected Fiat vehciles and environmentally goaled vehicles, When you woud think they need to look at what the buyers really want so as to produce a profit for a change on cars;not just trucks.Looks to me liike Ford who got no taxpayers moeny is teh future of american made vehciles because they were able to keep governmant out of their business.
I'm all for the working guy, but do it like they do it in Alabama. $18 and hour is plenty for assenly line work.
Says you. What do you do? I'd like to know so I can tell you how much is "plenty".
As for Alabama, I see lots of building tradesmen from Alabama booming up north but I've never seen guys from up north booming down to Alabama. Talent follows money in the blue collar world as well as in the white collar one.
Says you. What do you do? I'd like to know so I can tell you how much is "plenty".
As for Alabama, I see lots of building tradesmen from Alabama booming up north but I've never seen guys from up north booming down to Alabama. Talent follows money in the blue collar world as well as in the white collar one.
Well building trades and factory work are 2 different animals. A lot of building trades don't pay by the hour , they pay by the square foot.
It's also regional there is more money in Illinois, or Michigan, than in Alabama, which is shifting.
I've got 2 trades, Flexographic Press operator(by the hour) and Window Film Installer(sq Ft), I'm not doing either one right now. Press operator pay in FL and MI is about the same, but their is some union printing going on here in MI, which is very attractive pay, but what they don't realize up here is that it's way cheaper to live in MI than it is in FL.
The example I used American Axle(UAW) just last year went on strike in MI, most of them are getting $27 and hour, they were offered $18 and hour, strike resovled, now AA is pulling up and going to Mexico. What would you rather have another 5 years of $18 and hour or 12 months of $27. They shoot themselves in the foot. And just so you know, I believe it's not really the UAW's fault or the mega-million execs, but the men behind the curtain who laugh thier azz off through all of this is the ultimate demons, health care and insurance industries.
Man are you out to lunch. The UAW has made many concessions and in the deal will become a part owner of the company.
Of coarse they have made concessions but it's only because things are in the toilet and they're scared, where were those concessions a year or two ago before things got this far? And with the UAW being part owner of the company now I will make sure to never buy a Chrysler product (not that I would anyways).
Man are you out to lunch. The UAW has made many concessions and in the deal will become a part owner of the company. Now my conservative economic playbook teaches that now that the workers have a direct stake in the company they'll do all they can to improve the economic health of the company. Does your conservative economic theory teach something different?
In any event the company went down the tubes because of financial and engineering decisions made by management. Capable management deals with unions and prospers, you know, like Bechtel does.
Perhaps you're of the opinion that companies can only make money if they employ servile and supine workers? Faceless lickspittles who shuffle, doff their caps and knuckle their foreheads when the boss comes around?
Go take a look at United Airlines & see how that theory worked out.
I don't mean to turn this into a political thread, but here's the part that most got my attention about this article:
"Obama vowed the bankruptcy process would be quick, efficient and controlled. A senior administration official predicted it would be completed within 30 to 60 days. The combination with Fiat is also due to close during that period of time."
So what, now Obama is the nation's Bankruptcy Judge? It's not enough that he's already the nation's Automotive CEO? "You WILL merge with Fiat or we'll let you die!" WTF...
I don't mean to turn this into a political thread, but here's the part that most got my attention about this article:
"Obama vowed the bankruptcy process would be quick, efficient and controlled. A senior administration official predicted it would be completed within 30 to 60 days. The combination with Fiat is also due to close during that period of time."
So what, now Obama is the nation's Bankruptcy Judge? It's not enough that he's already the nation's Automotive CEO? "You WILL merge with Fiat or we'll let you die!" WTF...
I don't like the feds running auto companies either, but it was Chrysler that went to the gov't chrying for money so I have no issues w/ their new largest stockholder dictating the Fiat merger.
However, Obama is not - as you so ably pointed out - a BK judge. Just because the feds are large stakeholders they have no right to dictate terms to creditors then any other shareholder would in BK.
Unfortunately, the restructure calls for the new Chyrco to be part owned by the UAW. This makes me doubt that the new entity will be shedding any of its stifling legacy obligations or trimming its labor costs to the level neccasary to win in the market. Basically it will become a health insurance co. & pension fund w/ a sideline in producing cars.
The "deal" worked out is that the UAW is 55% owner - that's not just "part owned", that majority owned. Two of the other "owners" are foreign - Canadian Government @ 2% and Fiat (Italian) with a Fiat CEO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by southernnaturelover
I hate to get political, but the only hope for them is to move their factories to "right to work" states or Mexico. As long as they stay in MI where the unions have them by the b*lls they'll never get ahead.
It's already been announced that a Mexican factory will be making these new "Fiat/Chrysler" cars, it's a sure thing that some will be made in Canada or the Canadian Government would not be part of the "deal".
The larger problem could end up being the Presidential statement about Investment funds who hold actual Chrysler assets - when asset backed investment financing is vilified publicly, and legal rights co-opted for an unsecured Union by the President of the USA (Obama is going to have to leave this to a judge, he can't make the call) ... it's going to be hard for any company to get investors. These investment funds like Oppenheimer invest for pensions, annuity's , Teacher retirements - this is an old and respected Fund Manager. Obama was way out of line.
It's an important distinction and precedent for any Corporate Investment. I don't that will be forgotten by any Investment Fund.
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