City gets $25 million for streetcar (Cleveland, Cincinnati: high school, earthquake, pros and cons)

[abr7rmj]

^

Wow ... who knew Cincinnati could be so cutting-edge, visionary and cool by declining any and all rail projects because they are "old technology for an old lifestyle." Maybe that's why this city and state are bursting at the seams with an influx of new businesses and residents.

Gee, I bet those old fogies in such moribund places like Denver, Austin, Washington DC, Portland, NYC, Pittsburgh, Boston, Dallas, San Diego, Atlanta, Baltimore, Charlotte, Houston, Los Angeles, Miami, Phoenix, New Orleans, San Francisco, Seattle, Philadelphia, Chicago, Honolulu, St. Louis, Minneapolis, Toronto, Montreal, Calgary, Vancouver, Edmonton, the entirety of Europe and virtually everywhere else in the civilized world sure are jealous of Cincinnati's progressiveness and forward thinking (and our modern, wave-of-the-future interstate highways with Applebee's and TGI Fridays at each exit!). As those poor, unenlightened stiffs board brand new light rail cars in has-been cities like Denver and Austin that conspire to promote "old technology," I'm sure they look upon us with envy as we pay $4 a gallon to sit in 3 p.m. gridlock on I-75 or circle downtown blocks as we seek a parking garage less than 6 blocks from our destination for under $10.

However, before you go writing anymore premature epitaphs, you may be interested in this. Read it and enjoy suburbanites:

High Gas Prices May Turn Suburbs Into Slums : Discovery News

[Wilson513]

That explains why most of those cities who have active rail programs will fail. The suburbs will die and people will not want to get on the train to see abandoned housing. Now, here, if we got some light rail, people could live in Dayton and work in Cincinnati. Wouldn't that be a good idea?

[kjbrill]

Now that makes sense to me, light rail between Dayton and Cincinnati. And I would think we could find some existing track to use without having to buy up large chunks of property.

To me such an endeavor needs trains to be scheduled like they do in Japan. Locals which stop in every individual location along the line and expresses which skip all the local stops between the two end destinations. I have ridden the trains in Japan quite a number of times, and always felt safe even though I couldn't read the signs. The young people were always anxious to help me with identifying my station.

In all my years going to Chicago more times than I can count, I rode the subway once from O'Hare to downtown. It was a weather delayed late arrival at O'Hare which disrupted all of my plans, so I decided the subway should be a good idea. I never made it downtown. As more and more what is this got on the train frankly I became concerned. Kept an eye out at each stop, saw a cabbie parked near a station, jumped out, hailed the cab, and said take me to this hotel downtown. Was very relieved.

[Wilson513]

There was a time when employment was centralized and rigidly scheduled such that train travel which is also centralized and rigidly scheduled made some sense. Not today. Employees rarely work a rigid schedule, plan other things as part of their work day like shopping, child care arrangements, errands, exercise, etc. Very seldom does that permit a straight shot downtown to work and back home to the suburban train station.

There was a time when the breadwinner had no other duties. KJ, you might have been the last of those families. By the time I was raising a family, there were two parents working and many of what were traditionally stay at home mommy tasks were shared.

How does a guy who takes the train to work get back home to pick his kid up at day care and take him to the doctor and get back to work by 2pm? Kids don't tell you the night before that they are gonna go t the doctor the next day. The answer to that question is why trains are dead iron other than for fun. And, who can afford a "fun" train?

Sure, for a part time college student or unemployed person the train works great. No where to be no time to have to be there. But, I have no desire to facilitate a bunch of unemployed pukes to have a nice ride downtown on the train to "chill" with their friends with no schedule, tasks or timetable. For my part, they can walk.

[DarkWolf]

Originally Posted by Wilson513

This is a problem of technology not a problem of leadership. Trains are old technology for an old lifestyle. They are not economical unless packed in all directions which they never can be. Most commuter trains run nearly empty most of the day or only accomodate a very narrow window of transit. And, they only go where the rails lead. With flexible hours and a more complex lifestyle than the gray suits filing into tall buildings of the past, the train is dead except for recreational travel.

Passenger trains, you were a great friend from 1850 to 1950. RIP

Roads and cars are an old Tech , they develop over time just like the rest of the Transportation modes. Railways are economic drivers in the Northeast , West Coast , parts of the Midwest..... Why wouldn't it work in Cincinnati? You keep throwing up the same old excuses , which hold no water..... I beleave if people were more educated on the subject of Rail they wouldn't be against , that goes for across the US. Rail is the future of this country.....you can either accept it or stay in Denial....

[grmasterb]

Originally Posted by kjbrill

In all my years going to Chicago more times than I can count, I rode the subway once from O'Hare to downtown. It was a weather delayed late arrival at O'Hare which disrupted all of my plans, so I decided the subway should be a good idea. I never made it downtown. As more and more what is this got on the train frankly I became concerned. Kept an eye out at each stop, saw a cabbie parked near a station, jumped out, hailed the cab, and said take me to this hotel downtown. Was very relieved.

Wow, are you really that soft? You should try taking the Orange Line from Midway into the Loop if you really want to see Chicago's finest. The Blue Line from O'Hare has nothing on the Orange.

But your comment seems common among a lot of rail naysayers. It seems that they fear riding alongside the poor, and they certainly don't want the infrastructure in place that allows the poor to move out in their direction.

I'm not here to defend the streetcar or light rail per se. I just had to crack on this statement. There's pros and cons to everything. Public transport does mean that us middle- and upper-income folks must rub elbows with the poor and dregs of society. In places like Chicago, the alternative is gridlock. Give me the Blue Line over gridlock on the Kennedy Expressway or some jerk Chicago cabbie anyday. But maybe most in Cincy feel otherwise. Plus, Cincy doesn't have near the gridlock issues that Chicago has.

[Wilson513]

Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey

Railways are economic drivers in the Northeast , West Coast , parts of the Midwest.....

What on Earth are you talking about? "Economic driver" What the heck is that? Is that some buzz word they teach you in lib school? A train is an "economic driver."

Hey, I'm taking the economic driver to town.

Maybe they can make the rails out of something more green friendly. Like hemp or recycled plastic. And, put solar panels on top of the economic drivers. Or put a sail on the economic driver, right behind the 8000 hp diesel engine that has been turned off since last November.

[progmac]

Originally Posted by Wilson513

There was a time when employment was centralized and rigidly scheduled such that train travel which is also centralized and rigidly scheduled made some sense. Not today. Employees rarely work a rigid schedule, plan other things as part of their work day like shopping, child care arrangements, errands, exercise, etc. Very seldom does that permit a straight shot downtown to work and back home to the suburban train station.

I just don't know that the data support the "everyone needs a car" argument.

And no doubt reality has forced both parents to work in many cases. This isn't the case for my family and others on my street but I still accept the premise and it is a shame. But if you have robust transit infrastructure, part of the beauty is the parents don't have to shuttle their kids everywhere. As someone who grew up in a small town, "chauffeur" was the least of my mom's many job titles. I was expected to get where I wanted to go more or less on my own.

[wpipkins]

Originally Posted by Wilson513

There was a time when employment was centralized and rigidly scheduled such that train travel which is also centralized and rigidly scheduled made some sense. Not today. Employees rarely work a rigid schedule, plan other things as part of their work day like shopping, child care arrangements, errands, exercise, etc. Very seldom does that permit a straight shot downtown to work and back home to the suburban train station.

There was a time when the breadwinner had no other duties. KJ, you might have been the last of those families. By the time I was raising a family, there were two parents working and many of what were traditionally stay at home mommy tasks were shared.

How does a guy who takes the train to work get back home to pick his kid up at day care and take him to the doctor and get back to work by 2pm? Kids don't tell you the night before that they are gonna go t the doctor the next day. The answer to that question is why trains are dead iron other than for fun. And, who can afford a "fun" train?

Sure, for a part time college student or unemployed person the train works great. No where to be no time to have to be there. But, I have no desire to facilitate a bunch of unemployed pukes to have a nice ride downtown on the train to "chill" with their friends with no schedule, tasks or timetable. For my part, they can walk.

In Pittsburgh, we use vacation / personal days. The system would have free park and ride lots??

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by kjbrill

Now that makes sense to me, light rail between Dayton and Cincinnati. And I would think we could find some existing track to use without having to buy up large chunks of property.

To me such an endeavor needs trains to be scheduled like they do in Japan. Locals which stop in every individual location along the line and expresses which skip all the local stops between the two end destinations. I have ridden the trains in Japan quite a number of times, and always felt safe even though I couldn't read the signs. The young people were always anxious to help me with identifying my station.

In all my years going to Chicago more times than I can count, I rode the subway once from O'Hare to downtown. It was a weather delayed late arrival at O'Hare which disrupted all of my plans, so I decided the subway should be a good idea. I never made it downtown. As more and more what is this got on the train frankly I became concerned. Kept an eye out at each stop, saw a cabbie parked near a station, jumped out, hailed the cab, and said take me to this hotel downtown. Was very relieved.

I find it fascinating how some people always p*ss their pants when it comes to riding public transportation, as if everyone who rides it is out to rob, rape, or murder you. I've ridden Chicago's trains many times and never had a single issue, no matter what the people looked like. Then again, I don't assume everyone's out to get me.