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Old 03-23-2011, 02:17 PM
 
10,135 posts, read 27,356,547 times
Reputation: 8398

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Quote:
Originally Posted by wpipkins View Post
Downtown Pittsburgh is not flat. It goes uphill from point state park to grant street. pittsburgh does have a rougher terrain than cincy and it gets even more noticeable as you go east of the city (laurel highlands) Satellite images may be a bit decieving. Which south suburb are you referring to? I 'd rather take a 36 minute train ride than sit in downtown traffic for 45 minutes waiting to get across the liberty bridge and tunnel or the fort pitt bridge and tunnel. once you get through the tunnel, you still have to navigate the narrow streets and highways. 36minutes vs 1 hour, take your pick.
That's why you have a train and we don't need one. There is no reason other than personal preference to live more than 15 minutes from downtown Cincinnati via car at rush hour. People who do are part of the problem and not part of the solution. Facilitating someone living 40 miles away and wanting a free ride to town is not on my list of things that I want to pay higher taxes to support.
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Old 03-23-2011, 02:30 PM
 
Location: East End of Pittsburgh
747 posts, read 1,225,701 times
Reputation: 521
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilson513 View Post
That's why you have a train and we don't need one. There is no reason other than personal preference to live more than 15 minutes from downtown Cincinnati via car at rush hour. People who do are part of the problem and not part of the solution. Facilitating someone living 40 miles away and wanting a free ride to town is not on my list of things that I want to pay higher taxes to support.
its not a free ride.
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Old 03-23-2011, 03:23 PM
 
10,135 posts, read 27,356,547 times
Reputation: 8398
Quote:
Originally Posted by wpipkins View Post
its not a free ride.
It sort of is, actually. In Portland, the poor taxpayers pay $12-$20 per trip per person so that someone who is too cheap to get a car can live out in the boondocks and ride to work on the train. I think cities would be much better off in the long run if the true economics of living 20 or 30 or 40 miles from the place of work or school were not absorbed by taxpayers but paid by the persons who made the bad economic decision in the first place.

How many people would rent a apartment out in East Boofoo if they had to pay $24 each way for a ride on teh train to get to work or school?

The population of Cincinnati's center city has gone from 25000 to 8000 in two decades. All of those folks still live around here, just not in the city. I say screw them. If they want to live out there, tell them to get a car or get out their checkbook.
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Old 03-23-2011, 03:36 PM
 
Location: Cincinnati(Silverton)
1,607 posts, read 2,823,685 times
Reputation: 688
^All talk(type) but no facts. Links? How do you know any of them still live here?
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Old 03-23-2011, 03:55 PM
 
Location: Mason, OH
9,259 posts, read 16,702,627 times
Reputation: 1954
Wilson... I know you keep harping about the subsidy cost for public transportation. I am not disagreeing, but having difficulty locating data to identify just what it is. I assume it is made difficult to pin down on purpose so the amounts are not immediately visible. Are you aware of any group which maintains a database on such subsidies across the nation?

The transportation costs work both directions. As so many jobs have moved to industrial park locations spread among the suburbs, the working poor from the inner city have a problem applying for and securing jobs there. Bus access has not been a solution due to both the rather sparse density plus the outer counties like Warren have backed down on their willingness to subsidize the operation, either direction.

I chose to live outside the City all of my life. I was fortunate to have employment also outside of the City. The last thing in the world I would have wanted was to work in the City. I just don't like the atmosphere of the City, this one or any other.

But I agree, those who elect to live outside of the City should be responsible for the cost of transportation, not dependent on subsidy. But I think you will find the amount of traffic on I-275 during rush hour is due to people going to and from work around the City, not to/from it.
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Old 03-23-2011, 04:18 PM
 
2,491 posts, read 4,447,400 times
Reputation: 1415
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilson513 View Post
It sort of is, actually. In Portland, the poor taxpayers pay $12-$20 per trip per person so that someone who is too cheap to get a car can live out in the boondocks and ride to work on the train. I think cities would be much better off in the long run if the true economics of living 20 or 30 or 40 miles from the place of work or school were not absorbed by taxpayers but paid by the persons who made the bad economic decision in the first place.

How many people would rent a apartment out in East Boofoo if they had to pay $24 each way for a ride on teh train to get to work or school?

The population of Cincinnati's center city has gone from 25000 to 8000 in two decades. All of those folks still live around here, just not in the city. I say screw them. If they want to live out there, tell them to get a car or get out their checkbook.
So, now people who aren't interested in owning a car or spending 2 hours a day sitting in one are now "cheap?"


Sorry Charlie, but cars aren't the future of this country (or this planet).
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Old 03-23-2011, 04:40 PM
 
Location: Mason, OH
9,259 posts, read 16,702,627 times
Reputation: 1954
Quote:
Originally Posted by abr7rmj View Post
So, now people who aren't interested in owning a car or spending 2 hours a day sitting in one are now "cheap?"


Sorry Charlie, but cars aren't the future of this country (or this planet).
You can have you attitude, but you are not in the majority. Have you designed the ultimate transporation alternative to the car? If you have, please publish it so all of us can partake of its revolutionary capabilities, as we all obviously are in dire need of it. If your idea is so unique and economically effective, you should be able to make Billions out of it! Thought so, you have a lot of derogatory comments, but damn little actual constructive criticism.
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Old 03-23-2011, 05:02 PM
 
10,135 posts, read 27,356,547 times
Reputation: 8398
Cars are the vehicle of the future. People want private transportation. They have voted with their wallets. The election is over. Cars, cars, cars.

What cars will lose hoever, is individual control on highways. We will be stuck with highway controlled cars. Everyone going 62mph or whatever the government determines is the most efficient fuel and traffic control wise. And, if there is too much traffic, you will have to wait to enter or choose an alternative route. This will result in an enormous increase in the capacity of roadways. It will totally eliminate the need for public transportation in all but the most sardine packed cities. And, if you want mass transit, highway controlled busses will provide it.

You people need to just stop thinking in the past. Its depressing to see young people so devoid of vision.
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Old 03-23-2011, 05:19 PM
 
10,135 posts, read 27,356,547 times
Reputation: 8398
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjbrill View Post
Wilson... I know you keep harping about the subsidy cost for public transportation. I am not disagreeing, but having difficulty locating data to identify just what it is. I assume it is made difficult to pin down on purpose so the amounts are not immediately visible. Are you aware of any group which maintains a database on such subsidies across the nation?
I'm not sure I would agree with "harping"


But there has been a lot written on this. You are right. Train advocates hide this data like its the recipe for Coke. Even in Cincinnati, the annual operating cost of the toy trolley was concealed and lied about.

Here are some articles that have sources referenced:

http://research.stlouisfed.org/publi...light_rail.pdf

http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2011/02/light-rail-and-sustainability.html (broken link)

http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2010/12/phoenix-valley-metro-light-rail-report-card-f.html (broken link)


http://www.lvmonorail.com/corporate/docs/2008-US-Rail-Stat-Subsidy.pdf (broken link)


Toward Creating Sustainable Transit | The Heritage Foundation

Urban Transportation Policy Requires Factual Foundations | The Heritage Foundation
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Old 03-23-2011, 05:27 PM
 
Location: Cincinnati(Silverton)
1,607 posts, read 2,823,685 times
Reputation: 688
That first link is ridiculous. Poor riders? Give me a break. Unprofessional for any organization to say.
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