Shouldn't Cincinnati and Dayton be counted as one metro area? (Columbus: hotel, tax)

[hensleya1]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

Oh boy you save $700 per year in taxes living in effing Fairfield -- this is laughable when you can live in Cincinnati and not own a car or in my case own a high mileage clunker that sits out on the street for weeks without moving. The savings in transportation costs alone offset that tax difference. My car's been parked on city streets every night for the past 5 years and hasn't been broken into.

So how come all these Tea Partiers, with all their common sense financial wisdom, choose to live in places that force them to drive everywhere?

Hi jmecklenborg--

$700 per $100,000 in assessed value. IF your house is assessed at $300,000 - which seems a fairer amount given some of the houses I've seen out there, the real answer is more like $2100 in property taxes.

Don't forget about Cincinnati's 2.1% income tax (at least $800 per year for an average wage earner) or the Hamilton County sales tax, too.

Your actual cost of living in Cincinnati is probably $2,000-$3,000 higher. And that is far more than the cost of transportation. Because you're assuming that people that live in West Chester commute to Cincinnati. Have you seen the development along I-75? I'd wager a lot of them don't. They go to one of the new business office parks along the highway right there.

If, for some reason, living in the city makes economic sense to you, then by all means do it. But it doesn't for me - and because I need to pinch every penny I can in this economy, I won't live there.

[WILWRadio]

Originally Posted by TomJones123

No one is anti car. But people are denying obvious benefits of rail transit that enables more personal freedom. However, there are anti-rail folks.

No, I'm not anti Rail. As long as they can find a way to fund this and don't have to raise taxes, then I'd favor it.

They've tried to do it in KC but will cost a billion dollars for a single line. Much cheaper to expand the bus system at least here.

A lot of cities still have old rail lines in place from the early days of rail. Most have been paved over. I wonder if they can be uncovered in the streets and reused?

[kjbrill]

Originally Posted by abr7rmj

Hi hensleya1--

This is all a moot argument. Cincinnati is building the streetcar. We've beaten this horse to death again and again. There's nothing that the suburban rail haters can do to stop the streetcar at this point. Move on. Surely there's some other worthy project you can direct all your venom toward stopping now?

And how did the streetcar suddenly get thrust into this? Yes it is being built, but we still have to wait some time to see a result. It is now a Cincinnati only project, so I can stand by and just observe.

But a commuter rail between Cincinnati and Dayton, that is different. It will have to involve state and/or federal money. So we can turn our focus to seeing that does not happen.

[TomJones123]

Originally Posted by hensleya1

But the City blowing money on stuff like this - and the taxes they levy to support projects like this - make it impossible for me to live or work in the city. It simply doesn't make economic sense. It doesn't for me, and it doesn't for the 1,000,000+ residents who live in any of the suburban counties that surround Cincinnati (Butler, Warren, Clermont, Boone, Campbell, Kenton).

I want to live in Cincinnati - but not at that price. And until Roxanne Qualls and Mark Mallory get that into their heads, people will continue to vote with their feet - and leave.

Since you have memory troubles at this point. How does 50 years of census data back up your claim that people will not move to Cincinnati because of the streetcar? I didn't know the street car was a 50 year old project. Silly me.

Oh, and tell me again how people are going to keep leaving in droves because of Mallory and Qualls. Your 50 years of census data leaves me scrambling for an answer.

Have you forgotten one of the main reason people have left many rustbelt cites is loss of manufacturing jobs? Not to mention the rise of the automobile, suburban development, white flight, mmmm....guess perhaps you should quit cherry picking irrelevant data to obfuscate thing and prove the point you keep trying to distance yourself from.

[jmecklenborg]

>may be a fool, but I analyze multi-million dollar business propositions on a daily basis

So it's 2pm on a Thursday, and you supposedly are at work, but you have time to write 1,000 word posts on an internet forum. Sorry, I've got to get back to work.

[abr7rmj]

Originally Posted by flashes1

I may be a fool, but I analyze multi-million dollar business propositions on a daily basis......and I know a self-sufficient business model when I see one, and the SF-LA rail line ain't gonna be self-sufficient.....not even close. I am grounded in economic reality...where revenues must exceed expenditures or it's game over....whereas most big spending liberals, including seemingly all the rail zealots, live in some kind of warped reality where money is not something earned, but something won from the government, who themselves took it from tax payers who worked for it.

Jerry Brown's model makes no sense. First, why doesn't he tackle the smaller lines that connect the city centers to the outlying populations who have the economic means and need to use rail transit? That would help alleviate traffic congestion....and arguably more importantly, you gain valuable knowledge how to build and operate such a business endeavor when the financial stakes are much lower.

Then once you master that process and the rail line(s) are self-supportive, you tackle the big project of connecting major cities to these commuter lines....this is where the big money and big risk is involved. But you don't start in the major leagues....you start way down low to build your skills and knowledge. Instead Jerry Brown, who's never run a business in his life, wants to roll the dice on a $100 billion project. Sorry Jerry, but no one but the liberal idiots in Sacramento will support you. Where's the private investment? If there was money to be made....they would be there. Where's the federal government? They've already run from this thing because they see how f'd up it is.

I know the rail-zealots want to believe that there's going to be this huge exodus from the suburbs to the city centers.....but it ain't happening for a million reasons. The big money makers and their families live in the suburbs.....those are the only people that are going to make your dream of mass rail transit a reality and until you make it more convenient, economical and faster for someone to get from the suburbs of LA to the suburbs of San Fran. it's not going to work without major government subsidies which can't continue.

Please stop embarassing yourselves and pontificating that the rail zealots are more somehow more worldly and travel savvy because you've been to Europe and rode the trains. Great. You've been to Paris and Amsterdam and road the trains. Color me impressed. If you really have been there (and again I'm really impressed if you have----must be the only Americans who've gone to Europe) you should know how tiny European countries with 1-3 major cities and are about the size of Ohio.

If the liberals, and admittedly many Republicans, keep spending money America doesn't have, the problems of Greece and Spain will be on our shores. Actually, the damage has already been done. The federal deficit is already so big......there's no way to stop the effects of compound interest. You will see social unrest like you've never seen before. There's so many people sucking off the governemnt's teat, they no longer know how to live independently of the modern slave master. The United States federal government. Thanks LBJ. What a great society you built.

Hi Flashes1--

You don't have to go to Amsterdam to see how rail works. Just go to Denver, Salt Lake City, Minneapolis, San Jose, Charlotte, Portland, New Orleans, Houston, Washington DC, Boston, Newark, Norfolk, Cleveland, Seattle, San Francisco, NYC, Chicago, Philadelphia, Tampa, Dallas, Phoenix, Pittsburgh, San Diego, Los Angeles, St. Louis, Sacramento, Jersey City, Tacoma, Little Rock, Buffalo and elsewhere.

But yea, it's not for Cincinnati, right?

Caveman.

[flashes1]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

>may be a fool, but I analyze multi-million dollar business propositions on a daily basis

So it's 2pm on a Thursday, and you supposedly are at work, but you have time to write 1,000 word posts on an internet forum. Sorry, I've got to get back to work.

Yep. The internet is a huge waste of time and company resources. If I had the power, I would limit employees' access to very specific websites (not this one!).

[TomJones123]

Originally Posted by flashes1

Yep. The internet is a huge waste of time and company resources. I

Are you ...gasp... cyberloafing?

Ok, I got shizzle to do. Laters.

[abr7rmj]

Originally Posted by kjbrill

And how did the streetcar suddenly get thrust into this? Yes it is being built, but we still have to wait some time to see a result. It is now a Cincinnati only project, so I can stand by and just observe.

But a commuter rail between Cincinnati and Dayton, that is different. It will have to involve state and/or federal money. So we can turn our focus to seeing that does not happen.

Hi kjbrill--

Sorry, but Kasich can't stay in office forever. I suspect, when he's bounced out in 2014 that we can get the ball rolling on that again.

[hensleya1]

Originally Posted by TomJones123

Since you have memory troubles at this point. How does 50 years of census data back up your claim that people will not move to Cincinnati because of the streetcar? I didn't know the street car was a 50 year old project. Silly me.

Oh, and tell me again how people are going to keep leaving in droves because of Mallory and Qualls. Your 50 years of census data leaves me scrambling for an answer.

Have you forgotten one of the main reason people have left many rustbelt cites is loss of manufacturing jobs? Not to mention the rise of the automobile, suburban development, white flight, mmmm....guess perhaps you should quit cherry picking irrelevant data to obfuscate thing and prove the point you keep trying to distance yourself from.

Hi TomJones123--

Because Cincinnati has a long history of mismanaging and squandering the gifts it's been given. I already told you about the Paul Brown deal that is the most generous in NFL history, the empty Riverfront Transit Center that neither the streetcar, Metro, or TANK currently goes through, and now this truly laughable streetcar idea.

Do you really think Charlie Luken was any better? How long did The Banks sit empty and unused? Ten years? Mallory and Qualls are just the most recent products of a truly dysfunctional City Council that can't seem to get their collective heads on straight.

And last I checked, other cities in the area haven't suffered quite the population losses. Lexington, Indianapolis, and Columbus seem to be doing just fine, despite the economic downturn and housing collapse.