Shouldn't Cincinnati and Dayton be counted as one metro area? (Cleveland: foreclosure, rent)

[unusualfire]

Kjbrill federal money. Orlando got more federal $$$ for their commuter rail because it now has Daytona in it's CSA. Im not saying that's the only reason but it's one of them. And if you look at the maps. Cincinnati and Dayton is way more connected than Orlando and Daytona. The only thing being is Daytona is much smaller than Dayton, so the commuting % will be more favorable to Orlando and Daytona to form a CSA even though more people maybe commuting between Cincinnati and Dayton.

[TomJones123]

Originally Posted by kjbrill

But to say Cincy and Dayton are one metro area, I don't think so. I live in one of the further northern suburbs of Cincinnati, but still consider it as part of Greater Cincinnati.

The Cincinnati MSA covers all of Butler and Warren Counties, of which Mason is located towards the southern end of those counties. Cincy's MSA covers just north of Middletown.

Guess what picks up from there. Dayton's MSA.

You are not on the furthest northern part of the Cincinnati MSA.

[kjbrill]

Originally Posted by unusualfire

Kjbrill federal money. Orlando got more federal $$$ for their commuter rail because it now has Daytona in it's CSA. Im not saying that's the only reason but it's one of them. And if you look at the maps. Cincinnati and Dayton is way more connected than Orlando and Daytona. The only thing being is Daytona is much smaller than Dayton, so the commuting % will be more favorable to Orlando and Daytona to form a CSA even though more people maybe commuting between Cincinnati and Dayton.

What? How can two larger metro areas be on the losing end of an application for federal dollars to build commuter rail? Oh wait, that's right the federal government never uses logic to make its decisions.

But I am still not in favor of commuter rail between Cincinnati and Dayton. Why? for one where is the right of way? Are there some existing tracks I am not aware of? Otherwise the whole problem of securing a right-of-way is horrendously expensive. Then you have to build the damn thing. And then you have to equip and operate it. Show me some solid facts not based on speculation as to what the ridership and % of the population served would be and I may change my mind. I believe the % of population served to be very low, less than 15%, and the cost to be very high. If you have studies refuting this, let's see them.

I consider most of this rail argument as being a bunch of liberals wanting subsidized transportation for less fortunate people so they do not have to pay. A far more practical solution is to support the existing bus systems.

[unusualfire]

The more people you have the more the federal government will send your way. eg. A=Cincinnati B=Dayton. A gets 1.5 billion a year in federal funding. B gets 500m a year in federal funding. With the 2 combined with the larger population A and B would get about 2.2 billion in federal funding. "Those figures are not exact"

And not only that federal employee's get a hike in pay as well being in an larger area.

[kjbrill]

Originally Posted by unusualfire

The more people you have the more the federal government will send your way. eg. A=Cincinnati B=Dayton. A gets 1.5 billion a year in federal funding. B gets 500m a year in federal funding. With the 2 combined with the larger population A and B would get about 2.2 billion in federal funding. "Those figures are not exact"

And not only that federal employee's get a hike in pay as well being in an larger area.

So now you want me to be in favor of something which increases the federal employees salaries in the area? Excuse me if I politely abstain!

[flashes1]

Where can I vote to limit federal tax dollars into Southwest Ohio and every other region in the U.S.? We have to stop all this wasteful spending. Just because another area takes money from the feds, and wastes it, doesn't mean Cincy has to do it too.

Case in point-----for a good laugh (though depressing) read up on the boon doggle going on in Cali right now----in trying to build a railroad that's failing miserably----while costing the federal government billions it doesn't have. How long will the Chinese continue to support our wasteful spending on such things?

[abr7rmj]

Originally Posted by flashes1

Where can I vote to limit federal tax dollars into Southwest Ohio and every other region in the U.S.? We have to stop all this wasteful spending. Just because another area takes money from the feds, and wastes it, doesn't mean Cincy has to do it too.

Case in point-----for a good laugh (though depressing) read up on the boon doggle going on in Cali right now----in trying to build a railroad that's failing miserably----while costing the federal government billions it doesn't have. How long will the Chinese continue to support our wasteful spending on such things?

Taken verbatim from COAST's tattered handbook of annoyance.

I would hardly call California's efforts to install high-speed rail a miserable failure. Funding was just approved this month and you're already trashing it? Sounds exactly like a COAST tactic if ever there was one. It's been in the planning for three decades and now it will become reality to board a bullet train in San Diego and travel 220 mph to the Bay Area.

Face it: Rail foes are losing virtually everywhere. Remember those two votes that the buffoonish suburban Tea Party COASTers lost here?

[neilworms2]

for one where is the right of way? Are there some existing tracks I am not aware of? Otherwise the whole problem of securing a right-of-way is horrendously expensive. Then you have to build the damn thing. And then you have to equip and operate it. Show me some solid facts not based on speculation as to what the ridership and % of the population served would be and I may change my mind. I believe the % of population served to be very low, less than 15%, and the cost to be very high. If you have studies refuting this, let's see them.

I consider most of this rail argument as being a bunch of liberals wanting subsidized transportation for less fortunate people so they do not have to pay. A far more practical solution is to support the existing bus systems.

There is existing track that runs through the most densely populated part of the region, up along the mill creek valley to Hamilton through Middletown, Carlisle, Miamisburg, West Carlton and to Dayton. There is also an alternative track that runs through West Chester past Mason into Middletown.

Finally the rail argument should be far more than liberals arguing a welfare state, it should be about having a choice in lifestyle, being able to not use your car to go to and from work, its a wonderful thing, far less stressful and far safer, as well as encouraging higher density development, which given the realities of gas prices, is a very smart move - we should be driving a lot less to ease demand. On top of that it would create more vibrant communities, encourage reading (on the train) and promote a more urban smaller footprint lifestyle. Heck you can even add wifi to the trains like they do in Boston and are working on in Chicago so you can get your work down on the commute to work, how cool is that?

[abr7rmj]

Originally Posted by kjbrill

I consider most of this rail argument as being a bunch of liberals wanting subsidized transportation for less fortunate people so they do not have to pay. A far more practical solution is to support the existing bus systems.

Wrong again, kjbrill. It's about positioning our city/region to compete effectively with other areas that are now able to attract the best and brightest talent, all of whom would rather live in progressive cities with options. It's how cities survive and grow and if we want to be included, we have to adapt. It's a fact: young people today aren't like young people in the 60s and 70s. They want to live in vibrant cities and they, honestly, don't really want to drive.

Just look at the current parts of Cincinnati that are growing and attracting new, young residents from around the region and across the country - downtown and OTR (both, coincidentally, along the streetcar path). Do you think this is by accident?

[flashes1]

Originally Posted by abr7rmj

Taken verbatim from COAST's tattered handbook of annoyance.

I would hardly call California's efforts to install high-speed rail a miserable failure. Funding was just approved this month and you're already trashing it? Sounds exactly like a COAST tactic if ever there was one. It's been in the planning for three decades and now it will become reality to board a bullet train in San Diego and travel 220 mph to the Bay Area.

Face it: Rail foes are losing virtually everywhere. Remember those two votes that the buffoonish suburban Tea Party COASTers lost here?

The high speed rail linking SF and LA will cost more than $100 billion......yes that's in billions. Where's the money coming from? The state of California is sacrificing its once stellar education system so Jerry Brown can build his rail line that no one will use. Private investors have avoided it like the plague and the federal government ran away after its initial pledge. The state of California already took Sacramento and San Diego off the grid and it will still cost more than $100 billion.

Where will riders go once they get dropped off in huge sprawling metropolis of LA and SF? They'll have to rent a car or take a cab.....which makes no sense. It's the Vietnam of transportation.....and will drive even more businesses and successful people out of California.

It's a tragedy.