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Old 05-09-2011, 08:07 PM
 
405 posts, read 887,150 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by progmac View Post
city residents are more tired than anybody of the senseless crime among certain demographics within the city. but other than the tucker's incident where no one was killed, when have "innocent bystanders" been killed? i haven't seen those reports or at least nothing comes to mind.
Here is the link to the story of how Christine Mae Withrow was killed sitting on her porch in East Price Hill this year. How soon we forget.

Woman killed protecting grandchild | Cincinnati.com | cincinnati.com

You may not have realized that the young man killed outside the armory recently was an innocent bystander.

Two arrested for killing 17-year-old

Here is the story of the woman shot on her porch petting her dog the other day.

Woman shot petting dog on porch | Cincinnati.com | cincinnati.com
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Old 05-10-2011, 07:01 AM
 
Location: Cincinnati
3,336 posts, read 6,912,917 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolden View Post
Finally, MULTIPLE bystanders have been shot this year (most recently a woman on her porch petting her dog
woodlawn isn't in cincinnati
Quote:
, and there was another young woman killed I think on her porch-- was that the one you were referring to?)
really tragic. but it wasn't this year.

you stated that multiple innocent bystanders have been shot in cincinnati neighborhoods this year. that isn't true.
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Old 05-10-2011, 07:03 AM
 
Location: Cincinnati
3,336 posts, read 6,912,917 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolden View Post
Do you drive it every day? I am talking about active crack houses in full view of MLK with dozens of "apparent" druggies and drug dealers hanging around there and MLK. It is 30 feet from the road. If they get in a "dispute" about their drugs, and start shooting (as often happens) it is Highly likely that shots will go right into MLK.

Now, it is true it is Unlikely that I will be driving by that minute. But, as you yourself point out, it is HIGHLY likely that SOMEONE will be driving by then, because it is a very high volume road.
.
you are far far far far more likely to die in a car accident than in some kind of mythical MLK gun battle. when year after year millions of people drive the same route and year after year no one dies in a gun battle, it isn't rational to conclude that you might die in a gun battle. using your twisted logic, i could say that we should all worry about meteors hitting our cars when we drive on the interstate, because there are meteors and interstates always have traffic, so it is highly likely that someone will be driving by when a meteor hits the interstate.

i get worked up from posts like these because the boogieman of random violent crime keeps people out of the cities, and from a statistical point of view, it isn't a rational concern.

Last edited by progmac; 05-10-2011 at 07:14 AM..
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Old 05-10-2011, 04:08 PM
 
405 posts, read 887,150 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by progmac View Post
woodlawn isn't in cincinnatireally tragic. but it wasn't this year.
Look at the links I posted. The woman killed on her porch was within the last year. Why doesn't that meet your criteria?? It was east Price Hill last fall. Is there some bizarre reason why that "doesnt count"??
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Old 05-10-2011, 04:14 PM
 
405 posts, read 887,150 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by progmac View Post
you are far far far far more likely to die in a car accident than in some kind of mythical MLK gun battle..
Tell that to the guy shot at Madison and Reading yesterday. Or didn't you hear about that either?

How is that "mythical"?? This is someone shot six times RIGHT NEXT to the road.

What are you going to say now? "oh those bullets hit the guy, don't worry, there is no way that gunfire can hit bystanders" "Oh, that is Avondale, not Walnut Hills, even though it is the same road, it doesn't count" ????

You appear to want people just to bury their heads in the sand and pretend everything is fine and not to worry.

I have the opposite idea. Tax payers like myself, residents of Cincinnati, paying a LOT of taxes, have EVERY RIGHT tp be upset at gun battles in the middle of the day in our town, and to DEMAND that the authorities do something about the underlying conditions.

First step: clean out the open air crack houses operating in broad daylight flagrantly violating the law.
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Old 05-10-2011, 05:15 PM
 
Location: Mason, OH
9,259 posts, read 16,702,627 times
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Wolden... You are being too practical. Listen to the statistics, they say you are unlikely to be gunned down near MLK drve. After all, Madison and Reading is not MLK, so you are just splitting hairs. In my opinion the splitting was not hairs, it was a person's life. I agree with those who want to see a much more agressive presence of authorities to shut down the crack houses, etc.
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Old 05-10-2011, 05:21 PM
 
2,886 posts, read 4,951,122 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolden View Post
Tell that to the guy shot at Madison and Reading yesterday. Or didn't you hear about that either?

How is that "mythical"?? This is someone shot six times RIGHT NEXT to the road.

What are you going to say now? "oh those bullets hit the guy, don't worry, there is no way that gunfire can hit bystanders" "Oh, that is Avondale, not Walnut Hills, even though it is the same road, it doesn't count" ????

You appear to want people just to bury their heads in the sand and pretend everything is fine and not to worry.

I have the opposite idea. Tax payers like myself, residents of Cincinnati, paying a LOT of taxes, have EVERY RIGHT tp be upset at gun battles in the middle of the day in our town, and to DEMAND that the authorities do something about the underlying conditions.

First step: clean out the open air crack houses operating in broad daylight flagrantly violating the law.
Sure, you have every right to be upset, but demanding that "the authorities" do anything about the underlying conditions strikes me as a pointless waste of energy. The underlying conditions are things like poverty, ignorance, breakdown of family and social structure, and a whole bunch more big ticket conditions that I don't have the energy or interest to iterate just now.

As for the crack dealing, that will stop if and when people don't want to buy crack any more. Not before. Are the police doing everything they can? Probably not, if the general apparent mismanagement of city government is any indication. But expecting some government agency to "fix" this problem is a lost cause. If you feel unduly threatened, you would be much better off directing your energy into finding ways to avoid the parts of town where you believe frequent shootings of bystanders occur.

I don't share as widespread an area of perceived lack of safety as you do, but at the same time there are parts of OTR and Avondale I simply don't drive into--day or night, not ever. So far this has worked for me. If I can't make it work any longer, I'll move to Harrison or somewhere.
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Old 05-11-2011, 07:23 AM
 
Location: Cincinnati
3,336 posts, read 6,912,917 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolden View Post
Look at the links I posted. The woman killed on her porch was within the last year. Why doesn't that meet your criteria?? It was east Price Hill last fall. Is there some bizarre reason why that "doesnt count"??
Your statement was that several innocent bystanders have been killed this year, i took that to mean in 2011. My mistake.
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Old 05-11-2011, 04:04 PM
 
405 posts, read 887,150 times
Reputation: 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarah Perry View Post

I don't share as widespread an area of perceived lack of safety as you do, but at the same time there are parts of OTR and Avondale I simply don't drive into--day or night, not ever. So far this has worked for me. If I can't make it work any longer, I'll move to Harrison or somewhere.
Thats true, its a judgement call. I won't drive north up Reading from Madison (or MLK whatever its called there) through Avondale (consistently rated the most dangerous intersections in the city). But actually I've driven through most other areas of the city.

However I don't want conditions to deteriorate around the road I commute on every day (along with 40,000 others, apparently).

You're right, government can't fix it. It appears no one can fix these problems, they are as bad now as 50 years ago, and apparently will not change any time soon.

It upsets me to drive through this every day. Not so much the fear of being shot, or car jacked or whatever.

What upsets me is the sheer wasted state of society, the endless cycle of poverty, the blight, my wasted taxes, the whole hopeless mess!!!
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Old 05-11-2011, 06:26 PM
 
2,886 posts, read 4,951,122 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolden View Post
...What upsets me is the sheer wasted state of society, the endless cycle of poverty, the blight, my wasted taxes, the whole hopeless mess!!!
I was watching several AA community leaders decrying the city's cuts in funding that have apparently cut the number of CIRV staffers on the street from 16 to 5. I'm willing to take their word for it that these workers have brought about a reduction in the specific type of gun violence that involves young black men shooting each other. But I also had the thought that "gee, maybe a lot of us taxpayers don't feel like we should have to pay for this." I mean, really, what about those of us from a culture where instilling the values that prevent this sort of thing is the (unpaid) job of PARENTS?? And what about all the large black churches? Couldn't some of them manage the necessary training and get enough volunteers on the street to replace those 11 laid off workers? If this is such a good idea???

Don't get me wrong. I feel for the people caught up in this cycle. Especially the grieving family members. Every time it happens, there's a mom on TV saying how this has to stop. But when did stopping it become my responsibility?
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