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Old 12-12-2011, 04:21 PM
 
Location: Mason, OH
8,705 posts, read 6,563,114 times
Reputation: 1701
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Don View Post
I think you are proving my point... CVG is broken and will not be fixed.

But - what if we started from scratch and opened a new facility with double the potential customers?

And -- the control of the facility is by an advisory board appointed by people we could actually vote for?
Frankly I think you are dreaming. First of all double the customers? If you add Dayton to Cincinnati you do not double the customers, you add less than 50%. And in order to do this you have to abandon two perfectly good airports in the process, particularly the infrastructures which have been built up over time.

Next comes the political part of it. Just how do you propose to create an entity across multiple county jurisdictions which will be responsible for the funding, construction, and operation of the airport? Especially if you want to locate the airport in a county which is outside of both cities major area. Please cite your predecence and justification for this.

Even if double the customers was believable, just what would that mean in greater services for the flying public? After spending all of the unidentified money to build it, please cite airports of similar size which have services superior to what we already have.I am saying cite metro areas of 3 million or so which have superior services unless they have been blessed by an enduring hub from years past.

Just being mad that CVG has downsized and the business decisions of Delta has caused us a lot of heartache is one thing. Saying we can step in there on our own and make everything better is another.

Why not consider some lawsuits against the Kenton County Airport Board? After all, we are a lawsuit happy country. We should be able to identify some smart young lawyers who can contend Kenton County lulled us into this present circumstance by their implied conditions we had the best of airline services. Due to the fact they are not delivering, sue them for damages, etc. and the right to take over the airport. After all, that is the American way Right?

 
Old 12-12-2011, 04:25 PM
 
1,279 posts, read 1,215,763 times
Reputation: 443
SW don't go international. So that don't solve the business aspect of it. Do you think building a new airport will reduce fee's?? Nope It will be even more to pay for it all .lol
 
Old 12-12-2011, 05:46 PM
 
2,482 posts, read 2,023,143 times
Reputation: 1310
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjbrill View Post
Frankly I think you are dreaming. First of all double the customers? If you add Dayton to Cincinnati you do not double the customers, you add less than 50%. And in order to do this you have to abandon two perfectly good airports in the process, particularly the infrastructures which have been built up over time.

Next comes the political part of it. Just how do you propose to create an entity across multiple county jurisdictions which will be responsible for the funding, construction, and operation of the airport? Especially if you want to locate the airport in a county which is outside of both cities major area. Please cite your predecence and justification for this.

Even if double the customers was believable, just what would that mean in greater services for the flying public? After spending all of the unidentified money to build it, please cite airports of similar size which have services superior to what we already have.I am saying cite metro areas of 3 million or so which have superior services unless they have been blessed by an enduring hub from years past.

Just being mad that CVG has downsized and the business decisions of Delta has caused us a lot of heartache is one thing. Saying we can step in there on our own and make everything better is another.

Why not consider some lawsuits against the Kenton County Airport Board? After all, we are a lawsuit happy country. We should be able to identify some smart young lawyers who can contend Kenton County lulled us into this present circumstance by their implied conditions we had the best of airline services. Due to the fact they are not delivering, sue them for damages, etc. and the right to take over the airport. After all, that is the American way Right?
It seems to work in multiple other regions, including Dallas-Fort Worth; Seattle-Tacoma; Baltimore-Washington; even the Quad Cities, where the airport situation somewhat resembles ours in that the airport is in a different state (Illinois) than the metro's anchor city (Davenport, Iowa).

And I can see how a new regional airport would double the potential customers. You add not only the roughly 1 million people who live in the Miami Valley, but the thousands in the Tri-state who use Dayton's airport exclusively instead of a much closer CVG. I think a new mega airport somewhere around Middletown or Monroe would draw customers from a wide swath that extends from Lima to well south of Cincinnati, west halfway to Indianapolis and east to include Springfield, Wilmington and beyond.
 
Old 12-12-2011, 06:46 PM
 
Location: Mason, OH
8,705 posts, read 6,563,114 times
Reputation: 1701
Quote:
Originally Posted by abr7rmj View Post
It seems to work in multiple other regions, including Dallas-Fort Worth; Seattle-Tacoma; Baltimore-Washington; even the Quad Cities, where the airport situation somewhat resembles ours in that the airport is in a different state (Illinois) than the metro's anchor city (Davenport, Iowa).

And I can see how a new regional airport would double the potential customers. You add not only the roughly 1 million people who live in the Miami Valley, but the thousands in the Tri-state who use Dayton's airport exclusively instead of a much closer CVG. I think a new mega airport somewhere around Middletown or Monroe would draw customers from a wide swath that extends from Lima to well south of Cincinnati, west halfway to Indianapolis and east to include Springfield, Wilmington and beyond.
And all of the multiple city areas you cite are how old? A good 30 years plus. 20 years ago CVG was the envy of the surrounding cities. But things change.

Why would people in Wilmington, assuming they can afford an airline ticket, feel going to someplace over on I-75 be superior to just driving on up to Columbus? And all of these thousands you cite who use Dayton's airport, if they are such a formidable force why is it not a whole lot bigger than it is? Everyone you cite as passengers for this new mega airport are already traveling when they need to today.

But suddenly combined they are the fusion for a new airport? I just think you are stretching things beyond the economic reality.

We certainly are not Dallas-Fort Worth by any remote stretch or for that matter Seattle-Tacoma. Now the quad cities I can relate to as I spent a lot of time there. And I can expect if I returned there today I would not find the airport a whole lot different from when I traveled there on a regular basis about 15 years ago. The quad cities metro population is less than 1/4 of Cincinnati's. I don't believe it is an area to cite for exemplary airline service.
 
Old 12-12-2011, 06:57 PM
 
1,279 posts, read 1,215,763 times
Reputation: 443
Yeah those airports were built decades ago. Labor today may not make it feasible. Now if the feds pay for it 100% then we might have something. But it wouldn't hurt at least to have a study for one. IT does not even have to have a 5 or 6 runway airport. just maybe 2 or three to draw in new airlines. I know one thing. Ohio will NEVER send money to KY to subsidize the airport there.
 
Old 12-12-2011, 07:24 PM
 
Location: Mason, OH
8,705 posts, read 6,563,114 times
Reputation: 1701
I was only being half facetious when I suggested suing the Kenton County Airport Board for inadequate performance. For how many years has the airport been billed as the Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky International Airport? This is displayed prominently on large signs when you depart and deplane and all associated advertising. So it is quite obvious to me what they have been selling, the major airport serving Cincinnati.

The fact they are not delivering I would think is the basis for a law suit. Whenever you state a service is being delivered by a publically owned entity which precludes any other entity from reasonable conveyance of the same, and I consider an airport falls under this definition, I feel you take on an obligatory position to provide the service. If you fail to provide such service, I believe you have a requirement to inform all interested parties of this and in fact to offer whatever retribution may be available including the turning over of all physical properties and interests to another entity which may be capable of improved service. Sounds good to me. What do you legal boys think?
 
Old 12-12-2011, 07:35 PM
 
2,482 posts, read 2,023,143 times
Reputation: 1310
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjbrill View Post
And all of the multiple city areas you cite are how old? A good 30 years plus. 20 years ago CVG was the envy of the surrounding cities. But things change.

Why would people in Wilmington, assuming they can afford an airline ticket, feel going to someplace over on I-75 be superior to just driving on up to Columbus? And all of these thousands you cite who use Dayton's airport, if they are such a formidable force why is it not a whole lot bigger than it is? Everyone you cite as passengers for this new mega airport are already traveling when they need to today.

But suddenly combined they are the fusion for a new airport? I just think you are stretching things beyond the economic reality.

We certainly are not Dallas-Fort Worth by any remote stretch or for that matter Seattle-Tacoma. Now the quad cities I can relate to as I spent a lot of time there. And I can expect if I returned there today I would not find the airport a whole lot different from when I traveled there on a regular basis about 15 years ago. The quad cities metro population is less than 1/4 of Cincinnati's. I don't believe it is an area to cite for exemplary airline service.
Not that Wilmington's relatively modest collection of air travelers would be any sort of factor to consider, but I would imagine that most would prefer to drive to CVG, Dayton or a mythical Butler County airport over driving 60-some miles to Port Columbus - with everything else being equal such as price, connections, etc. A Butler County airport would be a quick trip down SR73 from downtown Wilmington. And Wilmington identifies with and is linked to Dayton and Cincinnati far more than it is to Columbus.
 
Old 12-12-2011, 07:56 PM
 
Location: Mason, OH
8,705 posts, read 6,563,114 times
Reputation: 1701
abr7rmj... OK, Wilmington's air travelers will make the difference - right?

How about addressing how the combined passengers over the entire Cincinnati/Dayton area will be the catalyst for a mega Joint Regional Airport when everyone I believe currently is traveling by air when they desire. Since this is not spurring huge growth in DAY, certainly not CVG, are they all going to CMH or IND? So just where is the growth coming from?

Of course we could possibly build a small regional airport somewhere in the vicinty of Monroe, Middletown, whatever. Then we could end up with three (3) airports all of which are bottom of the rung in service. That will do a whole lot for the area.
 
Old 12-12-2011, 11:03 PM
 
2,482 posts, read 2,023,143 times
Reputation: 1310
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjbrill View Post
abr7rmj... OK, Wilmington's air travelers will make the difference - right?

How about addressing how the combined passengers over the entire Cincinnati/Dayton area will be the catalyst for a mega Joint Regional Airport when everyone I believe currently is traveling by air when they desire. Since this is not spurring huge growth in DAY, certainly not CVG, are they all going to CMH or IND? So just where is the growth coming from?

Of course we could possibly build a small regional airport somewhere in the vicinty of Monroe, Middletown, whatever. Then we could end up with three (3) airports all of which are bottom of the rung in service. That will do a whole lot for the area.
This area is certainly large enough to support/sustain expanded air service. It's proven that CVG is a failed venture, and the powers that be don't seem all that interested or capable of doing anything to rectify the situation. And now it's starting to cost us jobs. We've tried CVG to limited success and it may be time to try again - to think outside the box. It's what this region historically fails miserably at but what could be in order here. The combined Cincinnati-Dayton/SW Ohio/Northern Kentucky region dwarfs metro Denver, which is served by one of the nation's largest and most important airports with non-stops to Europe, the Far East, Mexico and just about everywhere in the U.S. Denver isn't bemoaning one piddly flight a day to Baltimore that costs $400 ... why are we putting up with such a disgrace?

Why we're so content with tolerating lame service and poor options for a city of our size and importance is beyond me.
 
Old 12-13-2011, 02:50 AM
 
326 posts, read 255,689 times
Reputation: 329
denver,my home town is a regional center of a huge area unlike cincinnati which is in close proximity to numerous large cities.i agree cincinnati is important but no more than indy or cbus or pitsburgh or detroit.the airline industry is consolidating and most cities are suffering with poor air service
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