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Old 12-13-2011, 09:01 AM
 
Location: Bridgetown, Ohio
526 posts, read 1,475,489 times
Reputation: 145

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Quote:
Originally Posted by chet_kinkaid View Post
denver,my home town is a regional center of a huge area unlike cincinnati which is in close proximity to numerous large cities.i agree cincinnati is important but no more than indy or cbus or pitsburgh or detroit.the airline industry is consolidating and most cities are suffering with poor air service
Yes I agree but the reason why we choose our leaders and the reason they collect money from the public trough is to think beyond what IS and figure out what SHOULD BE.

Once upon a time, Columbus, Ohio was a sleepy over-grown college/capital city - much like Madison, Wisconsin is today. Back in the '50s companies would move from Columbus to Cincinnati in order to expand.

Look at Columbus NOW - what made the difference? Effective leadership with a vision. Look at Cincinnati NOW ??? (fill in the blanks - but one entity after another is leaving for better opportunities).

 
Old 12-13-2011, 11:30 AM
 
Location: Mason, OH
9,259 posts, read 16,702,627 times
Reputation: 1954
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Yes I agree but the reason why we choose our leaders and the reason they collect money from the public trough is to think beyond what IS and figure out what SHOULD BE.

Once upon a time, Columbus, Ohio was a sleepy over-grown college/capital city - much like Madison, Wisconsin is today. Back in the '50s companies would move from Columbus to Cincinnati in order to expand.

Look at Columbus NOW - what made the difference? Effective leadership with a vision. Look at Cincinnati NOW ??? (fill in the blanks - but one entity after another is leaving for better opportunities).
Why are you so quick to credit Columbus for effective leadership rather than declaring Cincinnati's as ineffective? Even if Columbus's was just mediocre they would likely have achieved about the same results compared to Cincinnati.

And we seem to be even less capable of electing leaders on the state and national level who actually solve anything. It appears to be a case of push the problem here, push the problem there, blame the other party, let the situation mushroom into a crisis where 11th hour heroics are required to prevent the government from defaulting.

To expect the officials of Cincinnati to engage in any effective dialogue with surrounding governmental entities to formulate plans for a new airport I feel is rather naive. They have their hands full just trying to keep the City of Cincinnati on track.

We have two of the most powerful men in the US Congress right in our backyard, Mitch McConnell of KY and John Boehner of OH. So they can't do something to get this airport situation resolved? Why not, because they are much more concerned about their national reputation rather than supporting the constituents who elected them. Pure political ego.

We may be entitled to expect more out of our elected representatives, but it just isn't happening.
 
Old 12-13-2011, 12:17 PM
 
Location: Bridgetown, Ohio
526 posts, read 1,475,489 times
Reputation: 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjbrill View Post
Why are you so quick to credit Columbus for effective leadership rather than declaring Cincinnati's as ineffective?
Just look at the results!!! That's how I can credit Columbus' leadership. In FACT the mayor of Columbus back in the '60s (Sensenbrenner) surveyed what was going on in Cincinnati and deliberately made it his policy to NOT make the same mistakes. It certainly paid off.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kjbrill View Post
To expect the officials of Cincinnati to engage in any effective dialogue with surrounding governmental entities to formulate plans for a new airport I feel is rather naive. They have their hands full just trying to keep the City of Cincinnati on track.
Sort of makes my point doesn't it?
 
Old 12-13-2011, 12:26 PM
 
2,886 posts, read 4,951,122 times
Reputation: 1508
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjbrill View Post
...We have two of the most powerful men in the US Congress right in our backyard, Mitch McConnell of KY and John Boehner of OH. So they can't do something to get this airport situation resolved? Why not, because they are much more concerned about their national reputation rather than supporting the constituents who elected them. Pure political ego. We may be entitled to expect more out of our elected representatives, but it just isn't happening.
Not just their national reputation. Given the scope of the corporate interests those two pander to, I think the local pond is just too small to interest them.

We'd probably be better off with some run-of-the-mill, lower-level pork-barrel political types who figure their bread is buttered with what they can get for corporations with a real interest in their districts.
 
Old 12-13-2011, 12:34 PM
 
Location: Bridgetown, Ohio
526 posts, read 1,475,489 times
Reputation: 145
Default You are correct about Mitch McConnell

I agree with what you guys are saying about Mitch McConnell -- he sold CVG down the drain as much as anyone. I can still remember him questioning the CEOs of Delta and Northwest Airlines about the future of CVG if the Feds would agree to their merger.

The CEOs naturally said don't worry - they had no intension of downgrading our airport - what a crock and everyone in the room knew it!
 
Old 12-13-2011, 04:11 PM
 
2,491 posts, read 4,447,400 times
Reputation: 1415
Quote:
Originally Posted by chet_kinkaid View Post
denver,my home town is a regional center of a huge area unlike cincinnati which is in close proximity to numerous large cities.i agree cincinnati is important but no more than indy or cbus or pitsburgh or detroit.the airline industry is consolidating and most cities are suffering with poor air service
Cincinnati is more important than three of the cities you listed and not as important as a fourth.

GaWC - The World According to GaWC 2010

As for Denver, I'm not a native but I lived there for quite a few years. It's absolutely one of my three favorite cities in the country. Denver is a large metro surrounded by absolutely nothing in all directions. It is certainly the hub of the "Rocky Mountain Empire," as the Post likes to bill the region. But to call it a "regional center" is misleading when that region includes the rest of Colorado (remote wilderness outside of FTC, the Springs and a few ritzy ski resorts), western Kansas (rural), Wyoming (mind-numbingly remote), western Nebraska (remote) and unpopulated areas of New Mexico, Oklahoma, Montana, Idaho and Utah (the latter two being far more affiliated with Salt Lake than Denver).

Denver is by far the anchor city of the region, but it's a region without any sort of population whatsoever. The Miami Valley alone has almost twice the population of the entire state of Wyoming. Denver is, however, in an geographically ideal location.

Last edited by abr7rmj; 12-13-2011 at 04:26 PM..
 
Old 12-13-2011, 05:48 PM
 
Location: Mason, OH
9,259 posts, read 16,702,627 times
Reputation: 1954
One of the things you fail to recognize relative to Denver is its strategic location distance wise. It is a great place to route planes from points further east to disembark and board another plane to their final destination. So rather than having to fill a plane for a direct flight from an eastern city to anywhere on the West Coast, you route them through Denver and then a shorter flight to their ultimate destination. Denver may not have the surrounding population to fuel a hub operation, but their geographical location makes it ideal for a transfer point. Of course I believe the airline people have already figured that out.
 
Old 12-13-2011, 07:40 PM
 
Location: Northern Arizona
1,248 posts, read 3,496,585 times
Reputation: 631
United certainly has, but I can't count on both hands the number of times I've been stranded in Denver thanks to this business model when trying to get from one coast to the other

Nothing against DIA itself (which is a nice airport, though that blue demon mustang statue outside is a little creepy), I just tire of getting stuck there more often than not whenever I have a trip that involves a layover in Denver on United.
 
Old 12-13-2011, 09:17 PM
 
2,491 posts, read 4,447,400 times
Reputation: 1415
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjbrill View Post
One of the things you fail to recognize relative to Denver is its strategic location distance wise. It is a great place to route planes from points further east to disembark and board another plane to their final destination. So rather than having to fill a plane for a direct flight from an eastern city to anywhere on the West Coast, you route them through Denver and then a shorter flight to their ultimate destination. Denver may not have the surrounding population to fuel a hub operation, but their geographical location makes it ideal for a transfer point. Of course I believe the airline people have already figured that out.
I did acknowledge Denver's advantage in my last post when I said it is in an ideal geographic location for airlines. But I also think Cincinnati is in a geographically advantageous spot at the doorstep to the East Coast air corridor while just south enough to dodge the nasty winter weather that plagues Minneapolis, Chicago and Detroit but far north enough that it's not as out of the way as Atlanta or Charlotte.

A couple of times when I flew from Denver to the east (multiple times to Dayton and once to Philly) I had to change planes in Atlanta and, as I'm sure you've also experienced, it's tremendously inconvenient and time-consuming. Charlotte is even worse.
 
Old 12-14-2011, 06:42 AM
 
Location: Mason, OH
9,259 posts, read 16,702,627 times
Reputation: 1954
At one point Delta obviously recognized Cincinnati's location as an eastern transfer point, so much that they grew their operation to completely dominate the airport. This put them in a position to keep competition out. Whenever a competitor would offer lower fares Delta would simply temporarily lowers theirs on equivalent routes until they ran them out.

One of the reasons for their success at CVG was its convenience compared to Chicago O'Hare or Atlanta Hartsfield. Back then Detroit was such a dismal operation noone wanted to go there.

The problems at CVG can be attributed to two main causes.
1) Delta's business decision to pull out of CVG in favor of Detroit after their merger with Northwest. Prior to the merger Northwest had literally invested billions in Detroit as their eastern hub.
2) The Kenton County Airport Board for permitting Delta to dominate the airport to such a degree. While it was happening I am sure they had their chests puffed out at what a great job they were doing. Once the bubble burst CVG is holding the bag, with little in terminal facilities to offer other airlines to move in.

Yes it is a dismal situation.
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