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Old 12-15-2011, 12:34 PM
 
2,491 posts, read 4,447,400 times
Reputation: 1415

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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjbrill View Post
Yes, CVG is still the highest.But this link indicates the others are rapidly closing the gap. All it amounts to is the airline industry is struggling, and any short term fixes are highly unlikely.

Air fares climb at Dayton, other regional airports
I wish I was "struggling" like the airline industry:

Delta projects $800 million profit for 2011 - USATODAY.com

 
Old 12-15-2011, 04:12 PM
 
Location: Mason, OH
9,259 posts, read 16,702,627 times
Reputation: 1954
Quote:
Originally Posted by abr7rmj View Post
I wish I was "struggling" like the airline industry:

Delta projects $800 million profit for 2011 - USATODAY.com
The problem with evaluating profits for a company like Delta is trying to determine what is their operating budget. I look high and low and cannot find reliable figures. Obviously if their operating budget is $1 billion and they make $800 million profit they are robbing everyone. But if their operating budget is $8 billion and they make $800 million profit they are at the 10% range, good but not gouging.

So before you denounce them as fleecing the public in total, try and equate their profit in proportion with the costs of operating the company. This is what I find so lacking in the media presentations, simple sensationalism in their headlines but virtually no substance in their articles. How about just two years ago when Delta lost a substantial amount of money? I am not particularly a fan of Delta, but at the same time I do not want to see them crucified when the total data does not support it.
 
Old 12-16-2011, 01:38 PM
 
Location: Mason, OH
9,259 posts, read 16,702,627 times
Reputation: 1954
Again, I am not a big fan of Delta, or any other major airline for that matter. But yes the industry is struggling to hold its own. Delta is reducing capacity year after year. It may be only 3% per year, but after a few years that adds up. The regional jet, which was the catalyst for Delta's enormous growth at CVG is now an albatross. As fuel costs increase, the inefficiency of the regional jet makes it a burden the airlines cannot sustain. They are divesting of them constantly. Perhaps they are selling them to South America or the Middle East so they can waste their fuel.

Having flown for years on the Short 360 and other pieces of crap I thought the CRJ was heaven. And in their day they were. But again, times change. I guess some of you needing to take commuter flights may find yourselves back on turboprops again. OH MY!

What we may lose sight of is the airline industry is a business, and they need to make a profit. Granted the profit needs to be a reasonable return. As they balance operating costs versus revenue they are open to all kinds of attacks. Let's face it, an airplane is just a whole lot sexier than a streetcar.

Just like the sports teams, many of the airlines utilize public financed facilities to conduct their business. Therefore, I believe they should be subject to regulations controlling the public good rather than just their individual interests. But that is a novel idea which apparently has not caught on.
 
Old 02-16-2012, 04:45 PM
 
1 posts, read 1,031 times
Reputation: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjbrill View Post
Oops hit the return key too soon. My point is what has the Airport Board mortgaged the future against? This $31 million, is it real money they already have or a speculation against the future, with a debt? These are the type of details we seem to not receive.
CVG | Future of CVG

Relevant quotes:

Who is paying for this? How will it be funded?

CVG will fund the project primarily from capital improvement funds established under the airport's current operating agreement with all carriers. No debt will be incurred by the Airport for this facility improvement.

What is the cost of this project?

The total cost of the project (reactivating Concourse A, improving Terminal 3 and enhancing the connector tunnel) is estimated at $31 million. CVG's signatory airlines have approved the plan per the Use and Lease agreement.


You can see a bunch of renderings of what remodeled Concourse A will look like here:

CVG Concourse A | MSA Architects

I seem to remember reading an article from the local media around the time that this was announced discussing a large portion of the costs going toward installing new jet-bridges and things of that nature, though I could be mistaken. If you'll recall, Concourse A was built in the early 80's, and then expanded in the 90's. A lot of that equipment was several decades old.
 
Old 02-17-2012, 05:21 PM
 
583 posts, read 880,950 times
Reputation: 373
Quote:
Originally Posted by abr7rmj View Post
With the two cities seemingly growing together and the Cincinnati-Dayton region being considered a single entity in many ways, wouldn't it make sense for a single, joint airport somewhere in the middle? Perhaps the Middletown area? Or Monroe?

With the current downsizing of CVG and the somewhat limited potential of DAY, a single airport like that in Dallas-Fort Worth would be bigger and attract more airlines and flights than either city currently has or likely will ever have on their own.

I realize shutting two major airports and building another one anytime soon is about as unrealistic as it gets. But should it be a long-term goal?
What about Wilmington? It's already built. It has the runways.

KILN airport - Google Maps
 
Old 02-17-2012, 05:26 PM
 
Location: Mason, OH
9,259 posts, read 16,702,627 times
Reputation: 1954
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregHenry View Post
What about Wilmington? It's already built. It has the runways.

KILN airport - Google Maps
Too far away. People are simply not going to travel that far. Now if you would build some rail transit to it that may change things. But I don't believe that is likely to happen.
 
Old 02-17-2012, 10:58 PM
 
16,361 posts, read 30,070,493 times
Reputation: 25410
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjbrill View Post
Too far away. People are simply not going to travel that far. Now if you would build some rail transit to it that may change things. But I don't believe that is likely to happen.
Seems to me that a lot of people drive to IND, SDF, DAY, and CMH to avoid using CVG? Wilmington is a lot closer than the current alternative airports.
 
Old 02-18-2012, 06:39 AM
 
Location: Mason, OH
9,259 posts, read 16,702,627 times
Reputation: 1954
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlawrence01 View Post
Seems to me that a lot of people drive to IND, SDF, DAY, and CMH to avoid using CVG? Wilmington is a lot closer than the current alternative airports.
I know people travel there for lower fares, but most of them are leisure travelers. Business travelers are still the bulk of the passengers. Wilmington may have the runways but not the terminal facilities, baggage handling, and a lot of other infrastructure required for a commercial airport.

I find it to be ironic that DHL, which devastated Wilmington when they pulled out, has announced a major expansion of their operation at CVG. I hope CVG has enough sense to not let them do what they did to Wilmington.
 
Old 02-19-2012, 08:17 AM
 
16,361 posts, read 30,070,493 times
Reputation: 25410
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjbrill View Post
I know people travel there for lower fares, but most of them are leisure travelers. Business travelers are still the bulk of the passengers. Wilmington may have the runways but not the terminal facilities, baggage handling, and a lot of other infrastructure required for a commercial airport.
True. However, large "freight only" airports - the largest one being Rockford, IL (RFD) - can be converted to a small commercial airport fairly easily.
 
Old 02-19-2012, 09:11 AM
 
Location: Mason, OH
9,259 posts, read 16,702,627 times
Reputation: 1954
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlawrence01 View Post
True. However, large "freight only" airports - the largest one being Rockford, IL (RFD) - can be converted to a small commercial airport fairly easily.
Wilmington is certainly a large freight airport. With all of the traffic which was going in and out of there, including the ground distribution trucks, there has to be a sizable storage and sorting warehouse facility. And I would expect some aircraft maintenance facilities must be present with obviously fueling and such. But conversion to passenger service still requires some doing. I would think the City of Wilmington would have solicited some professional studies on what they could do with the airport and obviously passenger service would be one.

But it doesn't take long for a facility to begin to decay, and I am pretty sure there has been no money for maintenance.

Are you suggesting they try and start out small and pursue some of the discount operators to move there?

From my location in Mason, Wilmington is closer than CVG. I know it is also convenient to most of at least southern Dayton, as I play golf with friends of mine from there at a course near Wilmington. If we will drive that far just to play golf I believe others would for cheaper air fares.

Unfortunately, CVG's current project of refurbishing Concourse A in Terminal 3 and consolidating all non-Delta carriers there I believe is their smartest move in years. It is still a bright and modern terminal. I also read recently where they were reducing the takeoff/landing and other fees for use of the airport.

Hopefully they have come to their senses and realize their future is as a downsized passenger service plus freight airport for Cincinnati based departures. They need to demo the Concourse C structure which was devoted to Comair and likely the original Terminals 1 & 2 just to clean things up. If you read some of the articles on the internet, the runways and traffic pattern in and out of CVG is one of the best and safest in the nation. They also have one of the best environmental control systems in the country when it comes to preventing de-icing fluid, etc. from contaminating the groundwater. These things do not come cheap. With these recent moves CVG may just come back and surprise people.

Frankly I hope so, as I took my first jet flight out of CVG on a Boeing 707. It was when we lifted off and I suddenly felt the thrust back into the seat I knew we had transitioned into a different era. The old piston engine, ring in your ears all night, era was done. I realize we are always transitioning. If CVG can transition itself into an efficient airport serving Greater Cincinnati I am all for them. If they do not secure lower air fares for Cincinnati then I would like nothing better than for Wilmington to replace them.
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