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I can't imagine they can expose it to the elements much longer and still be able to complete it without tearing it down and starting over. Something has to happen soon, you would think.
Agreed, because if that thing falls, I wouldn't want to be the one on I-71 (or shopping at Kenwood) that particular day. Even if they don't tear it down and salvage what's there, that building is going to have so many problems. Talk about an engineering disaster in the making.
It's been about a year since anyone posted on this thread so hopefully it will get read.
Tri-County Mall continues it's march to oblivion. I was recently there. I felt like I was in the Ghetto. The hooting and hollering both inside the mall and outside in the parking lot created an environment NOT conducive to shopping. I don't intend to go back.
Tri-County Mall's replacement is being planned for I-75 and Route 129 in Liberty Township. The 1.3 million sq. ft. Liberty Town Square (modeled after Easton in Columbus) is going to be the upscale alternative to Kenwood Town Centre. It will have a movie theater and 3 department stores rumored to be Macy's, Dillard's and Von Maur. It's due to open in the fall of 2014. I'll bet there will be an Apple store there along with many other upscale shops and restaurants.
There is no way Macy's and Dillard's will keep their stores at TC open. Tri-County lived a pretty long life. Maybe it can be made into a strip center with Sears at one end and a store like Shoppers World at the other.
In the thread, no one mentioned Florence Mall, on the south side of the metro area. It is owned by the same company that owns Kenwood Town Centre and is doing VERY well. Those are the 2 top malls in Cincinnati. Eastgate Mall seems to have fallen on hard times. But, it's in a great location with good demographics so I think it could be revitalized.
Looks like in the end Cincy will be a 4 MALL town.... 3 enclosed and the new open air Liberty Town Square. But, Northgate Mall was recently purchased and the new owners claim it will be the "biggest mall revitalization in the state of Ohio". We'll see I guess.
Last edited by CincyMan1967; 06-02-2012 at 10:15 PM..
Also, nobody mentioned the effect the completion of Cross County Highway had on the strengthening of Kenwood Towne Center to the detriment of Tri-County and Northgate.
Kenwood Towne Center simply draws from a great demographic. You can start from Mariemont/Terrace Park, through Indian Hill and Madeira, across Montgomery and Blue Ash, over to Deer Park, Silverton, Kennedy Heights, and Pleasant Ridge. I will also put Amberley Village in there, as it is not that far. Going north you have Symmes Twp and east Loveland. Kenwood is closer to both of them than Eastgate or Tri-County.
Years ago, when the original Kenwood Plaza was nothing more than a strip mall, we used to drive to Tri-County which had so much more to offer.
Of course the big attraction to me was Sears as we basically outfitted our house with their products. For years I was a DIY repairman and loved the fact I could order parts from Sears, whether it was a timer for a clothes dryer, a water valve for a washer, a door seal for a refrigerator, etc.
Then someone got the bright idea to two-story Tri-County. To me that was something they never recovered from. Some of the original merchants were so adversely affected by all of the construction they just left. Customers were so inconvenienced they left too. When they finally got it completed the parking was a nightmare. The parking garages came later.
Then someone got the bright idea to two-story Tri-County. To me that was something they never recovered from. Some of the original merchants were so adversely affected by all of the construction they just left. Customers were so inconvenienced they left too. When they finally got it completed the parking was a nightmare. The parking garages came later.
I agree. This was a total strategic mistake. If it was already evident how difficult it was to run a "super" mall by looking two exits west to Forest Fair, then they should have looked at the national trends and realized that the era of the indoor mall was waning. In the face of that, why do you double the size of the mall and increasing the likelihood that you will have empty storefronts just by the shear number of them that you have to keep filled? Did they really think that there were that many specialty retailers that would find the northern Cincinnati market lucrative? You lose pricing power as you are desperate to keep space rented and then you get desperate as you lower your standards on the type of retailer you allow in, and it becomes a race to the bottom.
I agree. This was a total strategic mistake. If it was already evident how difficult it was to run a "super" mall by looking two exits west to Forest Fair, then they should have looked at the national trends and realized that the era of the indoor mall was waning. In the face of that, why do you double the size of the mall and increasing the likelihood that you will have empty storefronts just by the shear number of them that you have to keep filled? Did they really think that there were that many specialty retailers that would find the northern Cincinnati market lucrative? You lose pricing power as you are desperate to keep space rented and then you get desperate as you lower your standards on the type of retailer you allow in, and it becomes a race to the bottom.
What many might not know is a new mall was planned for up the street, north of I-275 where GE Employee Park is (or used to be?). Through a google search I found info about the TC Mall expansion and the proposed mall that you all might find interesting. McAlpins was to be an anchor there:
With 1987 came another new wave of interest in Springdale for retail expansion. In July, Kravco, Inc., managers of Tri-County which was now owned by Equitable Life Insurance Company, announced plans to add 370,000 sq. ft. of retail space to the mall. Well aware of the massive traffic jams in and around the existing center, especially during the peak Christmas shopping season, Springdale secured an agreement from Kravco to make major road improvements to Princeton Pike and Kemper Road. Word that two rival malls were planned within a two mile radius of Tri-County promoted Kravco to accelerate its timetable for expansion. One of these centers, the Forest Fair Mall, was located in Forest Park and Fairfield, with the other developer, Shopco, Inc., a New York firm, planning to build its center southeast of Princeton Pike and Crescentville Road, just north of Tri-County Mall.
Shopco planned to locate its center on a 141-acre site used as a park by the General Electric Employees Activities Association. The complex deal took three years to complete, and if Springdale approved the zoning change, Shopco agreed to purchase 240 acres from the Burchenal family in nearby Woodlawn as a site for a new GEEAA park.
The planning commission, which had the right to hire planning consultants and to charge their fees to the developer, retained Shaw, Weiss, and DeNaples to guide it through the complexities of the Shopco proposal. That the commission had enormous difficulty finding a local firm without commitments to either Shopco or Kravco was a strong indication of the struggle to come.
In the autumn of 1986, when Shopco approached the planning commission for the first time, two years and considerable funds had already been spent on the project. The planning commission held the first of many special meetings on December 26 and Shopco officially applied for the zoning change from RF-1 to PUD the following spring.
When the planning commission met on June 30, 1987 for the public hearing on the Shopco plans, the discussion continued until nearly three o'clock in the morning. Nevertheless still another meeting had to be called for July 21. Shopco Development Director Frank Lanza outlined the plans for a colossal $203 million complex containing 1 million square feet of floor space which would later be expanded to 1.5 million. A ten-story hotel, a strip retail center, offices and condominiums would complete the project. Shopco had commitments from McAlpin's and J.C. Penney, and Lanza referred to ongoing talks with Elder-Beerman, which later formally committed, and an unnamed fourth department store. Shopco won the competition with Kravco and Tri-County for the first two mall anchors.
Typically, the first public reaction came from Heritage Hill, the neighborhood destined to feel the greatest impact if the center materialized. With its long history of community activism, it seemed to many as if Heritage Hill had been preparing for this moment since its inception. Squeezed between expressways and industry, and dependent on over-traveled Crescentville Road for egress, Heritage Hill had a long tradition of bitter struggles over development.
Three points, traffic snarls, increased flood risks and decreased property values, concerned Heritage Hill. Yet despite numerous objections, the planning commission approved the project by a six to one vote. Anne Barnett, a resident of Heritage Hill, immediately announced that a committee would be formed to express her community's opposition to council.
Council scheduled its public hearing for August 19. Noted Cincinnati attorney C. Francis Barrett, represented Shopco, and in a "beautifully orchestrated presentation" he attempted to defuse the opposition by addressing the issues of concern one-by-one. Shopco promised to build a storm sewer capable of handling one million gallons more than the ten-year capacity required to ally fears of flooding. As far as traffic was concerned, plans to widen S.R. 747 (Princeton Pike) to eight lanes from north of Crescentville Road to south of I-275 complemented plans to widen Crescentville Road six lanes at Princeton Pike, narrowing down as it neared Heritage Hill to the east. In addition, Shopco promised to build a railway underpass at the cost of $6.5 million to allow free flow of traffic on Princeton Pike, and to prevent backup on I-275. The company would use mounds of landscaped earth to shield Heritage Hills, creating a pastoral effect. Barrett also projected that the center would add 3000 permanent new jobs and $600,000 annually in city revenues from earnings, entertainment and real estate taxes, with an additional $1.1 million for the Princeton School District.
Shopco had a number of important political and legal supporters. State Senator Stanley Aronoff, Chairman of the Senate Finance Committee, appeared at the public hearing to answer questions about the widening of S.R. 747. Councilmember Marge Boice noted that the Ohio Department of Transportation had indicated not less than a month earlier that widening S.R. 747 would not begin until 1990. Now it appeared that the project might begin as early as the end of 1987. "If Shopco does not go through, then will it be delayed until 1990?" she asked Aronoff. The senator replied that North 747 would go through in any event. Constructing another interstate interchange would depend on the results of a necessity study. Council, however, wanted to hear that information directly from ODOT officials.
Despite their thoroughness, Shopco executives misread Springdale. While some cities desperately needed the revenues a center of that scope could provide, Springdale did not. The people of Springdale already regularly endured the stress created by heavy traffic, and the thought of even greater congestion was appalling. Years of listening to glossy presentations and splendid promises had created a very sophisticated, and cynical, citizenry. Chris Burns, a founder of Springdale Concerned Citizens, the group organized to lead opposition to the mall, expressed the prevailing attitude: We're not going to have this shoved down our throats. These people want to come in here from New York, build this thing, and walk out with money stuffed in their pockets. But we have to live with it.
The hearings recessed, to be continued in September. On September 2 the aisles and doorways of the council chamber had to be cleared of residents eager to speak. A throng waited outside the chamber door struggling to hear the proceedings.
Rarely had Springdale experienced such unity among its various neighborhoods. "It's not just a Heritage Hill problem, its a Springdale problem," one individual commented. Numerous residents voiced fears that Springdale would become a "blacktop" city, and "a place to shop, not to live." John J. Kelley, Jr., attorney for the Springdale Concerned Citizens Committee, presented council with a petition signed by 1,527 residents who opposed the mall. The next evening the recreation center became the site of the hearings in an effort to accommodate the masses of residents who wished to attend.
Local attorney Tim Burke, who represented Equitable Life and Kravco, played on Springdale's fears of litigation. He brought into the open what Marge Boice would come to refer to as "the subtext of court action" if council refused Shopco. Burke obviously knew much about Springdale's recent history. "Too often," he said, "local officials who anticipated being sued acquiesced to zoning changes." They feared that if they went to court and lost, they would lose any protection they might otherwise obtain by negotiating concessions from the developers. The city should not allow that unspoken threat to limit its choices, Burke argued.
Finally Burke addressed what must have been in everyone's thoughts, the June 1987 Supreme Court decision which allowed local officials to be sued for damages by developers. Burke argued that case applied only when zoning restrictions prohibited all other profitable uses. The existing zoning on the GEEAA property allowed for more intense use and a reasonable economic rate of return, he stated.
Two representatives from ODOT answered questions about whether road improvements depended on approval of the Shopco development. One representative indicated the widening of Princeton Pike to five lanes would "proceed as planned," if the council refused Shopco, but not to the eight lanes projected if Shopco was successful. The I-275 interchange, though dependent on the outcome of the necessity study, "would jump to the head of the list," if Shopco went in and built the underpass.
Hours before the final assembly on October 7, attorneys for Shopco filed an anti-trust suit against Kravco. The suit asserted that Kravco's efforts against the rezoning represented an illegal move to block competition. Shopco also claimed that Kravco helped organize the community opposition.
During the October 7 meeting, Springdale's city engineer, Wayne Shuler, presented the city's own traffic analysis. Some questioned the validity of the traffic count presented by Shopco. According to Shuler's analysis, the existing interchange did not have the capacity to deal with the traffic. Yet both federal and state governments became involved in building the proposed interchange and in widening Crescentville Road over I-275 and such involvement frequently meant long delays in construction. Shuler questioned if the improvements could be accomplished even by the year 2000. Therefore, he felt the city had to consider the impact of the Shopco development in the event of delays in road improvements.
The room filled with tension as the evening wore on. Finally a representative of Springdale Concerned Citizens demanded to know how council would vote. Marge Boice articulated the mood of Springdale: I want my no understood loud and clear. I am voting no because I honestly believe a city has the right to control its own destiny, and no one has earned that right better than our own city.
Her fellow council members added their own emphatic "no's."
Those who thought that the council's rejection of the Shopco project would put an end to the matter were badly mistaken. At first, the vote seemed to unify the community in its opposition to the idea of a large New York corporation trying to dictate its will upon Springdale. However, that unity disappeared when Shopco filed a $20 million lawsuit against the city. Personal and political divisions deepened amid the finger-pointing and second guessing.
For the next 2 years, a calculated campaign of intimidation and intrigue, unlike anything ever seen in Springdale, ensued pitting council member against council member, resident against resident. Finally, after a long and tortuous legal battle, a settlement was reached wherein Shopco pledged not pursue future developments in Springdale, plus it agreed to pay the city $50,000 towards any legal costs.
More importantly to city officials, Shopco also issued a public apology, stating its satisfaction that Springdale's decision was the "product of a good faith determination" by public officials which was "beyond reproach." Though feelings of relief and vindication surrounded the settlement, which to many stood as "proof that a city can stand up to the threat of intimidation of legal action in order to protect the principals of good land use planning," no one could ignore the tremendous personal and political toll that would take years to heal.
Pretty impressive post. Admttedly I have not waded through all of it. But I will be back. Extremely interesting. I am aware of the GE Park situation, since my aunt was president of the employee's association which owned it a whole lot of years (50+) ago.
Wow! Thank you, CincyMan1967. Like kjbrill, I will reread to digest in full.
This is particularlly interesting to me as I moved to Wyoming from NYC in 1989 as part of the corporate relocation of the national headquarters of Mercantile Stores, parent company of McAlpins (and 100 other dept stores).
Much appreciate the background to the development of the area that was my home for 20 wonderful years.
I've seen the future of rambling, interesting, fact-filled contributions to this forum, and its name is CincyMan1967.
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