Was there a time when Cincinnati was less "southern?" (Columbus: fit in, apartments)

[Ohiogirl81]

My mom says I drawl after living in southern Ohio for 27 years. Maybe I should adopt a South Philly accent (ugh) and see what she says about that.

[DEFAULTv2.0]

Originally Posted by Tex?Il?

Interesting comments.

However, I don't think Americas southern drawl will ever die out. Its part of way too much of a chunk of America for that to happen.

I think things like commercialized country music coming out of Nashville will keep it as much a part of american speech for a long time.

Plus as major southern cities with their generally healthy economies (Houston, Dallas, Atlanta, etc.) attract northerners, some northerners who choose to embrace their new homes, do pick it up a bit. Now, people will say those cities are all cosmopolitan/transplants . . . well, there is a diluted southern drawl nonetheless that you hear in major southern cities, that will make those distinct from nothern cities.

Our technology and communication has certainly done a lot to homogenize america, but I think you will always see and hear some regional differences. We learn most of our speech nonetheless from out immediate family, in our very early formative years, even with TV and the internet.

Well obviously nothing accent related will change dramatically, but gradually over the course of hundreds of years. Our European ancestors had Irish, German, french, ect. accents and now we don't hear those anymore unless in the country of origin or if someone has moved from there to here.

And see I always thought you spoke like your family did but I'm realizing this isn't true in quite a few cases living in Alabama for the mean time. Many parents have an accents, their parents have a very thick southern accent, but the parents children talk with hardly any accent at all. It's kind of crazy hearing it all at once!

[motorman]

Originally Posted by Tex?Il?

Do I have it about right? Do you think Cincy slowly became more "southern" in the post war world? Or do you think Cincy was like that from its very beginning?

Most of the comments here have addressed how Cincinnatians' speech patterns have been affected by migrations of people from the South, but I believe the OP actually asked two questions, the second one being how Cincinnati's culture has been changed by these same migrations. Needless to say, addressing this issue will allow for a more comprehensive response to the post, but will also invoke a variety of perceptions and prejudices toward "The South" (vs."The North) that we all possess (including myself). Does anybody want to venture forth here?

[mike1003]

Interesting question.Last week we were out eating with several friends. One of them, a black man in his 70s.

Somehow we got talking about race relations years ago. I grew up in Louisville in the late 40s and early 50s. I remember colored bathrooms and water fountains. I also remember that the white families around U of L lived on the main streets and the black families lived in the alleys between the streets.

I asked our friend if Cincy was like that. He said no, but then shocked me when he told us that at Walnut Hills High School in the mid 50s the white students swam on Thursdays and the black students swam on Fridays. He then said that the pool was drained and refilled over the weekend.

So, even though Cincy was in a border state and technically in the North, Southern prejudice still abounded.

[Tex?Il?]

Originally Posted by mike1003

Interesting question.Last week we were out eating with several friends. One of them, a black man in his 70s.

Somehow we got talking about race relations years ago. I grew up in Louisville in the late 40s and early 50s. I remember colored bathrooms and water fountains. I also remember that the white families around U of L lived on the main streets and the black families lived in the alleys between the streets.

I asked our friend if Cincy was like that. He said no, but then shocked me when he told us that at Walnut Hills High School in the mid 50s the white students swam on Thursdays and the black students swam on Fridays. He then said that the pool was drained and refilled over the weekend.

So, even though Cincy was in a border state and technically in the North, Southern prejudice still abounded.

Back in the 40s, and 50s, prejudice like what you described was actually quite widespread all over the north.

If you ever get the chance, a good read that exposed Chicagos less cosmopolitan side, is "Boss" by the Late Mike Royko. It focuses on the reign of the first Mayor Daley, but Royko talks quite a lot about the very fierce resistance of Chicago Catholic ethnic (Polish, Irish, Italian, German, etc.) communities of welcoming blacks in their communities. Martin Luther King, said that Chicago was one of the most difficulty cities to talk about integrated housing. His marchers were met with bricks and bottles.

[Mickey666]

I think the reason why Cincinnatti does'nt have southern influences than Dayton was it belong to New Jersey Symmes Purchase, While Dayton was part of Virginia Military Survey. That is the reason why they don't.

[Sarah Perry]

Originally Posted by Tex?Il?

Back in the 40s, and 50s, prejudice like what you described was actually quite widespread all over the north.

If you ever get the chance, a good read that exposed Chicagos less cosmopolitan side, is "Boss" by the Late Mike Royko. It focuses on the reign of the first Mayor Daley, but Royko talks quite a lot about the very fierce resistance of Chicago Catholic ethnic (Polish, Irish, Italian, German, etc.) communities of welcoming blacks in their communities. Martin Luther King, said that Chicago was one of the most difficulty cities to talk about integrated housing. His marchers were met with bricks and bottles.

After my husband and I went to see The Help, he asked me how much similarity there was to how my mother and aunt (who grew up in eastern Kentucky in the early years of the last century) treated their "cleaning ladies" here in Cincinnati in the 1950s. I told him the thing that really amazes me now is how they came from some mysterious place on the bus in the morning, and returned to that same mysterious place in the evening. I say amazing because I literally never wondered about that. I never saw nor was aware of a neighborhood where African-American people lived until I was in my teens.

My mom had lived and worked in DC during WWII and perhaps as a result, she had about as little racial prejudice as somebody from that time and place could have. My aunt hadn't reached quite that level of enlightenment, but they both treated their employees with courtesy and respect. For example, they figured the women were there to clean, so when we all sat down together at the kitchen table for lunch, it was for a meal my mom or my aunt prepared for all of us. Don't know if the same kind of circumstances were prevalent in other homes at the time or not, though.

[kjbrill]

I must be afflicted with the inability to see the forest for the trees. Having lived in Cincinnati all my life, perhaps I cannot see or hear the Southern part of it. But I certainly have never remotely thought of Cincinnati as being Southern. Certainly we have had people come here, specifically from Appalachia seeking a better life, but I never felt they contributed a Southern feel to the entire area.

[neilworms2]

When I lived in Cincinnati (and south suburban Dayton), I vehemently denied it being southern. Its kind of this sore issue for the city, its right on the border, has a large and often derided Appalachian population so Southern is not cool, its cooler to be northern down there.

Living a few years outside of it has given me a new perspective. I hear slight Southren drawls on most people, (very slight, its more the way of speaking than the actual accent) and some people who are completely there. I was shocked that no hillbillies lived in Chicago, I expected some but instead their white working class folk are generally of 'Da Superfans ilk'. (Which IMO is a really good exaggeration of a working class white southside Chicagoan.)

Culturally Cincinnati is more southern in racial relations, social norms (general mannerisms) and outlook (more conservative). The longer I've been away from it the more I feel it. My brother living in North Carolina for a few years also gave me perspective on the 'Real South' which Cincy is not, but you can feel its influence.

However there is one thing that Tex didn't bring up, Cincinnati is also way more East Coast. In terms of how people get along with one another, their perceptions of their neighborhoods (a kind of clannishness towards a part of town and a neighborhood that's way more pronounced than the rest of the Midwest - you don't hear the question what High School did you go to anywhere else in the Midwest, not even Dayton - though I've heard in Philly people ask and care about it). There are even accent influences from New Jersey (according to linguistic research I've read) and Northern New Jersey across the Hudson from Manhattan looks an awful lot like Cincinnati but way bigger. Both areas were heavily settled by Germans and had their heydays in the same time period mid-late 1800s (though NJ did continue to grow rapidly when Cincy stagnated).

I'd argue that Cincinnatians are culturally reserved like a Northeastrener (less outgoing than say a Chicagoan who will go out of their way to make small talk with people everywhere) and more conservative and mannered like a Southrener but not to the point of having a "Southern Charm".


So Cincinnati is really an outlier in the Midwest, a dash southern, a dash northeastern, a dash river city (ala New Orleans and St. Louis) and finally a nice sprinkling of heavy barvarian influence. The latter being still evidenced (at least according to a friend) by a very large per capita number of bars in the city, German beer being plentiful at said bars and events like Mayfest, Oktoberfest and traditional musical cultural institutions (like CCM).

Its this unique culture and heritage that makes some people so passionate about moving the city forward in certain areas

[nightrider127]

Originally Posted by kjbrill

I must be afflicted with the inability to see the forest for the trees. Having lived in Cincinnati all my life, perhaps I cannot see or hear the Southern part of it. But I certainly have never remotely thought of Cincinnati as being Southern. Certainly we have had people come here, specifically from Appalachia seeking a better life, but I never felt they contributed a Southern feel to the entire area.

I have to agree with KJ on this. I was born and raised in Southeastern Kentucky. Guess what? The accents down home sound strange to me. Never mind that I speak with that same accent, when I hear it down home, it sounds strange.

My husband was born south of Nashville, Tn and his mom and dad moved to this area when he was only 2 years old. He has no accent at all yet our son, who was born and raised here in the area, sounds like just what he is, a born and bred Buckeye.