Development along Dana near Xavier (Cincinnati, Toledo: low income, apartments, lease)

[Chemistry_Guy]

If you haven't been on Dana Ave. lately, you probably wouldn't recognize the stretch between Montgomery and Victory. Dana was widened, straightened, and all of the blighted light industrial/warehouse type buildings on the north side have been demo'd and a huge grass field is all that is left. On Xavier's campus, a few new buildings went up, including a business college, new dorms, and an expanded library type building called the learning commons. Apparently, the open area is going to be leased for retail development.

I am looking for a neutral opinion on what this development means for the local area in Norwood and Evanston. Is it perceived as a buffer between college kids and low income residents? Is it a strong investment that will change the fortunes of the blighted local areas? Is it a well connected alumnus's pet project that is funneling public money into private development? Is it a response to UC's demolition/development along Calhoun and McMillan? I was wondering if anyone here had any inside information or even just a neutral opinion on the topic.

[Wilson513]

I have a lot of inside information but no neutral opinion. First, nothing that Xavier does is in "response" to what UC does. The two schools are not in the same universe. Xavier is a top quality school offering a Jesuit undergraduate education to a small number of mostly students from out of town. UC (my alma mater) is a huge commuter school offering a second rate education to an enormous mob of undergraduates but offering some very good post graduate technical schools.

Other than the cross-town shootout, I would doubt that Fr. Graham or any of the board ever thinks of UC. I suspect they pay a lot of attention to what Loyola, John Carroll, Georgetown, and Marquette are up to.

I would be surprised if one of 50 students applying at Xavier also applies to UC.

I don't think the expansion of the XU campus means anything much to the locals except that it is nice to finally have the remnants of that chemical plant gone.

[Traveler87]

Originally Posted by Wilson513

I have a lot of inside information but no neutral opinion. First, nothing that Xavier does is in "response" to what UC does. The two schools are not in the same universe. Xavier is a top quality school offering a Jesuit undergraduate education to a small number of mostly students from out of town. UC (my alma mater) is a huge commuter school offering a second rate education to an enormous mob of undergraduates but offering some very good post graduate technical schools.

Other than the cross-town shootout, I would doubt that Fr. Graham or any of the board ever thinks of UC. I suspect they pay a lot of attention to what Loyola, John Carroll, Georgetown, and Marquette are up to.

I would be surprised if one of 50 students applying at Xavier also applies to UC.

I don't think the expansion of the XU campus means anything much to the locals except that it is nice to finally have the remnants of that chemical plant gone.

You think UC is a commuter school? I never got that vibe when I was in the area.

[abr7rmj]

Originally Posted by Traveler87

You think UC is a commuter school? I never got that vibe when I was in the area.

I'm sure the thousands of students who live either on campus or just off campus within walking distance don't get that vibe either. Wright State is a classic commuter school, UC not so much anymore.

And I doubt Xavier spends much time dreaming of being like Georgetown. Those schools aren't apples and oranges, they're apples and space shuttles. Xavier's partner school in just about every way has always been, is now and will continue to be the University of Dayton. What one does, the other quickly follows. Dayton seriously upgraded a dreary Brown Street, Xavier is simply following suit with Dana.

[Wilson513]

Originally Posted by abr7rmj

I'm sure the thousands of students who live either on campus or just off campus within walking distance don't get that vibe either. Wright State is a classic commuter school, UC not so much anymore.

And I doubt Xavier spends much time dreaming of being like Georgetown. Those schools aren't apples and oranges, they're apples and space shuttles. Xavier's partner school in just about every way has always been, is now and will continue to be the University of Dayton. What one does, the other quickly follows. Dayton seriously upgraded a dreary Brown Street, Xavier is simply following suit with Dana.

Hahaha. Dayton is ranked #99, Xavier #3 in 2011 Best Colleges.

UC has 22,000 undergrads, maybe 5000 of which are from 100 miles from Cincinnati. UC Rank is #156 Right ahead of the Toledo College of Upholstery.

[Sarah Perry]

Somewhat idly curious: what does commuter mean in this context? Anyone who lives off campus? Does it include someone who walks from home to campus? Someone who uses motorized transportation from home to campus? Cars but not buses? Someone whose previous residence before attending UC was "X" number of miles from campus? If so, how many miles?

[Wilson513]

Glad to be of help:

Some students look forward to attending a traditional four year college and living in dormitory housing provided by the institution. Others may prefer to attend college-level classes or receive adult career training while living at home or in other off-campus housing. A college or university which caters primarily to the needs of commuting students is commonly referred to as a commuter college. A commuter college provides the instructors, buildings and support facilities needed to complete a course of instruction, but not necessarily the dormitories, student life centers, or sports facilities associated with traditional colleges.

[abr7rmj]

Originally Posted by Wilson513

Hahaha. Dayton is ranked #99, Xavier #3 in 2011 Best Colleges.

UC has 22,000 undergrads, maybe 5000 of which are from 100 miles from Cincinnati. UC Rank is #156 Right ahead of the Toledo College of Upholstery.

Yes yes, I'm sure we can all google some ranking that lists one school over another. I bet if I look hard enough I can find somewhere that ranks NKU ahead of Cornell. But as I suspect you know, these rankings are very subjective and, most importantly, not every school participates or allows themselves to be ranked. Try to find Reed College (an outstanding, elite, hard-to-get-into liberal arts school in Portland, Ore.) on any rankings. You won't.

You looked at the US News & World Report regional ranking for Xavier (XU No. 3, Dayton not on list) and the national ranking for Dayton (UD No. 99, Xavier not on list). What exactly does that prove besides the fact that skewed and distorted numbers look really good on Internet message boards?

US News & World Report's XU regional ranking with UD not on list:
Regional University Midwest Rankings | Top Regional Universities Midwest | US News Best Colleges

US News & World Report's UD national ranking with XU not on list:
National University Rankings | Top National Universities | US News Best Colleges

Next?

(Incidentally, I didn't attend UD, XU, UC ... or Reed College, for that matter )

[goyguy]

I think Xavier should have looked to UC as an example before embarking on this overreaching project. How long has that swath of land between Calhoun and McMillan stayed empty? All those businesses and apartments were cleared away for...more businesses (national chains much more likely than not) and more apartments. Who among us thinks that the big brick box which is now on the north side of Calhoun, and home to such unique and distinctive operations as Five Guys and FedEx Office, is an improvement over what was there before? Any bets as to when the rest of the "improvements" will finally happen?

UC at least has Clifton and CUF anchoring the campus to the north, west, and south. And the 'dozers are rolling into Corryville in yet another effort to "unsketchify" that area. Dana Ave, in contrast, has the showplace communities of Evanston and South Norwood along its "cleared" stretch. There's no doubt that Norwood is on somewhat of an upswing. And I've stuck my neck out to say Evanston is a place smart urban pioneers might want to investigate. But in the here and now that's a shaky foundation to base urban removal on. Even with a new block - destined more likely than not to include a Staples and a Starbucks, with apartments or dorm suites upstairs - Dana, like Short Vine, will still be a place to steer clear of after dark. Too bad Reading Rd is as far from the XU campus as it is - not all that distant, but not bordering it either. Few places in the entire city are crying for a revival louder than the stretch between Dana and Paddock. Yet it's left to rot while something of questionable value is contemplated not a mile east.

[Wilson513]

UC destroyed a neighborhood and put themselves into serious money problems with their failed effort at getting control of the campus back. The moronic administration of the 1970's integrate the campus into the neighborhood and made UC an unsafe campus for four decades. As liberal as XU is, they are not that stupid.

EDIT:

For those too young to know the sad saga of the UC Campus, first understand that Corryville was always a bad neighborhood. As was Fairmont. In the 50's real hoods (not suburban kids with a black tee shirt) I mean the guys who carried a knife or a chain and used it, controlled Corryville. UC was a fortress. There were guards, checkpoints, patrols, fences, ID's etc.

Then along came hippie President Warren Bennis who thought it would be a good idea to "open the campus to the community." I was one of the poor souls who lived through the initial years of that folly.

Like today, nothing was safe on campus. If you set a book bag down on the bench and used the restroom, it was gone. Of course people think it is silly that a person would leave their bag on the bench and use the restroom, but in most college campuses in 1970 you could do just that. Not UC. The locals figured out quickly that a asset rich campus in the middle of a slum neighborhood was the place to be. I remember not being able to find a place to sit in the student center because school had let out at Hughes and there must have been 100 Hughes kids lounging on every horizontal surface waiting for a girl to harass or a bag to steal.

Five of the worst years of my life.

Eventually even the Bennis administration realized the mistake they had made and exerted a little control. Today, I am sure they would like to turn back the clock, but of course they cannot.

Hence the demolition project on Calhoun Street to create a buffer to the slum. Good luck with that.