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Old 07-08-2011, 05:06 AM
 
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KJ, you raise several interesting points. I'll address a couple of them and maybe come back to the others if you continue to be interested.

As for taxes, when the lender is paying the taxes with the borrower's money through an escrow accumulation account, there seems to be a diversity of practice. Some lenders advance the tax payments beyond the escrow account balance, some do not. As long as the property is worth more than the balance of delinquent taxes, its macht nichts because the taxes are ahead of the mortgage and must be paid first w/penalty and so every dollar of delinquent tax is one less dollar the lender gets from the proceeds of sale. Also, the county prosecutor may foreclose for the taxes and so the lender can have its "workout" efforts thwarted by an aggressive prosecutor. (ask me about sales of the tax lien claims by the county treasurer if you want to get really deeply into this).

Other properties (whether sold by or to a lender or a person) always seem to have substantial tax claims.

Every foreclosure brought must have a "preliminary judicial report" which is a title commitment from a title agent listing the liens, mortgages, etc. I can get it online but I think you have to go to the courthouse to look at it.

As for sales, here is the link to the Hamilton County Auditor's listings of sales:

http://www.hamiltoncountyauditor.org...r_policies.asp

I'll see if there is one for Warren County.

the answer to your tax deduction question is actually the opposite of your assumption. when a property is sold for less than the mortgage and the lender does not collect the money from the borrower outside of the sale, there is either a debt owed or the recognition of income under IRC Section 108. As for loss on sale, for a business, the property's depreciated book value is compared with the sale price and taxes incurred on that income even if the mortgage was much higher than the book value and the seller gets nothing or even has to pay money to the lender. Nice, huh? Put up some hypothetical facts and I'll show how this is computed.

Last edited by Wilson513; 07-08-2011 at 05:25 AM..
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Old 07-08-2011, 07:15 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjbrill View Post
... I assume if a property is behind in mortgage payments sufficient for foreclosure it may also be behind in property taxes. We all see the TV ads of the guy claiming to have the insight into purchasing property for the back taxes owed, which I consider just another con scheme. In most cases there would be a lender involved who is not about to let this happen.

But am I right in assuming if a property goes to sheriff's sale and is actually sold to a private individual it is probable there may be back property taxes also owed?...
I know nothing specific about how these sales work, and I hope I never have to--either as a buyer or seller. Buying property has become enough of a complicated hassle without adding the complications of foreclosure or short sale as far as I'm concerned.

I do know that unless a homeowner has a substantial down payment, their property tax and insurance costs are rolled into their monthly payments. So I'd think you would usually have back tax owed in a proportionate amount to the number of monthly payments missed.
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Old 07-08-2011, 07:58 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Sarah Perry View Post
I do know that unless a homeowner has a substantial down payment, their property tax and insurance costs are rolled into their monthly payments. So I'd think you would usually have back tax owed in a proportionate amount to the number of monthly payments missed.

While that sounds logical, if you thought that, you would be wrong. The way it works is the way I posted above. Taxes are paid semi-annually. And, if they are paid through an accumulation escrow by the lender, they are either paid or not paid. Partial payments are not allowed and never made. So it really depends on whether the lender advances the tax obligation and allows the escrow to go into negative territory. Some do, some don't. Of course, lenders always advance for insurance.
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Old 07-08-2011, 08:04 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Wilson513 View Post
While that sounds logical, if you thought that, you would be wrong. The way it works is the way I posted above. Taxes are paid semi-annually. And, if they are paid through an accumulation escrow by the lender, they are either paid or not paid. Partial payments are not allowed and never made. So it really depends on whether the lender advances the tax obligation and allows the escrow to go into negative territory. Some do, some don't. Of course, lenders always advance for insurance.
Thanks for the clarification. Makes sense.
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Old 07-08-2011, 09:14 AM
 
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KJ, I don't see a similar link for Warren County as we have for Hamilton County disclosing all of the sales. Perhaps a call to the Warren County Auditor would get somewhere.
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Old 07-08-2011, 09:47 AM
 
Location: Mason, OH
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Originally Posted by Wilson513 View Post
KJ, I don't see a similar link for Warren County as we have for Hamilton County disclosing all of the sales. Perhaps a call to the Warren County Auditor would get somewhere.
Yes there is one. It is under the main Warren Co web site, Sheriff - Sheriff Sales.
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Old 07-08-2011, 10:12 AM
 
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Originally Posted by kjbrill View Post
Yes there is one. It is under the main Warren Co web site, Sheriff - Sheriff Sales.

KJ, I see the link and see the listing of upcoming sales. HamCo has that too. But what I was referring to was the link I posted above whereby the HamCo Auditor shows all of the recent sales of real property including transfers by foreclosure. I guess you could say that the sheriff's sites shows what is listed to be sold; the Auditor show the details of sales that have taken place.
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Old 07-08-2011, 11:18 AM
 
Location: Mason, OH
9,259 posts, read 13,406,804 times
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Originally Posted by Wilson513 View Post
KJ, I see the link and see the listing of upcoming sales. HamCo has that too. But what I was referring to was the link I posted above whereby the HamCo Auditor shows all of the recent sales of real property including transfers by foreclosure. I guess you could say that the sheriff's sites shows what is listed to be sold; the Auditor show the details of sales that have taken place.
I went back and took a closer look at your link for HamCo. Yes I can get the property sales for a given month, but for some reason it does not even include the date. It also is just a straight file with no embedded links to take you to the property database. Better than nothing maybe, but not much.

Warren Co is not much better. Using the Advanced Search under the Auditor's section I can enter after last sales date and other optional criteria to narrow the search. But it is still clumsy and not all that great.
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Old 07-10-2011, 12:28 PM
 
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Another option is an REO home.we recently swung and missed on one. Watchout that I assume is common to ask foreclosures is the condition of the property. This one had no appliances. The people removed a section of the granite vounters. They eve took half the deck.
My point is buyer beware
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Old 07-10-2011, 02:29 PM
 
10,139 posts, read 22,495,763 times
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Originally Posted by kjbrill View Post
I went back and took a closer look at your link for HamCo. Yes I can get the property sales for a given month, but for some reason it does not even include the date. It also is just a straight file with no embedded links to take you to the property database. Better than nothing maybe, but not much.

Warren Co is not much better. Using the Advanced Search under the Auditor's section I can enter after last sales date and other optional criteria to narrow the search. But it is still clumsy and not all that great.
If you are interested, I could show you how to open those comma delinated database files into a table that is pretty useful. They have all of the sales by neighborhood with price, address, parcel ID, auditors value, date of sale, etc. But its HamCo so you probably don't really care that much about it and I could not find a comparable listing for Warren County.
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