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Old 12-09-2011, 03:26 PM
 
2,492 posts, read 3,652,150 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarah Perry View Post
Yeah. How come we can't throw that kind of money at various arts organizations, or at other things that would improve the quality of life for the thousands of people in the area who have zero interest in football, but have to pay to subsidize it for those who do?

I can just imagine the outcry from all the ignorant, Bengals-obsessed rednecks around here if the massive amounts of tax dollars that go to this downright embarrassingly inept football team were suddenly directed toward, say, the Cincinnati Symphony and the ballet company. But they expect me to just suck it up and pay for it without complaint.

And talk about something that makes the community look bad to outsiders? All the people running around with Bengals clothing, Bengals stuff on their cars, etc. It's like a big neon sign that screams "We love mediocrity in Cincinnati." "We have tremendously low expectations."

Geeze. You shouldn't have gotten me started.
Oh for crying out loud. So I'm an ignorant redneck now? And you really care what people wear? The Saints were hapless losers for decades until they won a Super Bowl two years ago. Did you think New Orleans had "low expectations" and reveled in "mediocrity" based on the results of football games? The Pittsburgh Pirates are by far the worst-run organization in baseball and have set a record for consecutive losing seasons; they make the Bengals look like the Green Bay Packers. The Cubs haven't won a World Series since 1908, the Browns haven't won a playoff game since the 90s. Do you mock people wearing Browns, Cubs and Pirates hats? Do people wearing such clothing make you look unfavorably upon Cleveland, Chicago and Pittsburgh? Honestly ...

And I love it how Cincinnati collectively gives the Reds an eternal free pass despite the fact that their performance the past two decades has been every bit as dismal - if not significantly worse - than the Bengals. Since 1995, the Reds have made the playoffs exactly once and won zero playoff games. The Bengals have doubled the playoff appearances of the Reds during the same time frame. The Reds went from 2001 to 2010 without a single winning season. The Bengals had two winning seasons during that span. The Reds are notoriously frugal, stagnant and passive, having gone the past three years without making a single move of note to better the team; the Bengals, of course, have and we're seeing the results of that this season. But hey, keep thinking what you want.

As for the arts: I'd be the first one to vote in favor of any measure that went toward the symphony, to improve Music Hall, Memorial Hall, the Emery Theatre, etc. And I'm completely 100 percent in favor of the $50 million-plus symphony-related renovation of Washington Park, which will feature a heavy classical music component. So don't claim that there's no support for our arts - I'd be first in line to support whatever is positive for the city.

Washington Park fountain will have interactive music feature | Cincinnati.com | cincinnati.com

Our arts organizations are blessed with some heavy-hitter donors who have been godsends for the symphony, ballet, opera, museums, etc. Cincinnati enjoys a tremendous arts and culture scene that most cities outside of New York, Boston, Philly, DC, Cleveland, Chicago and Los Angeles do not. I lived in Denver and that city doesn't have a third of the offerings we do, nor the national and international prominence that our arts organizations enjoy.

Last edited by abr7rmj; 12-09-2011 at 03:39 PM..
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Old 12-09-2011, 04:13 PM
 
Location: Cincinnati (Norwood)
3,377 posts, read 3,693,454 times
Reputation: 1746
Quote:
Originally Posted by abr7rmj View Post
...Cincinnati enjoys a tremendous arts and culture scene that most cities outside of New York, Boston, Philly, DC, Cleveland, Chicago and Los Angeles do not. I lived in Denver and that city doesn't have a third of the offerings we do, nor the national and international prominence that our arts organizations enjoy.
Hey, abr7rmj and Sarah Perry--as an active onlooker, I'm following this exchange between you two with deep interest--and not because one of you is "right" and the other one of you is "wrong," etc., but because both of you have really voiced concerns that warrant all the thinking that we can muster. Yet right now we're all getting farther and farther afield from the concerns of the OP. I, for one, would relish it if this particular discussion ("arts vs. sports in Cincinnati") took off on its own. Yes, I'm sure it's been tackled before, but why not again? Which one of you wants to initiate a new thread just for this purpose?
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Old 12-09-2011, 05:04 PM
 
2,492 posts, read 3,652,150 times
Reputation: 1385
Quote:
Originally Posted by motorman View Post
Hey, abr7rmj and Sarah Perry--as an active onlooker, I'm following this exchange between you two with deep interest--and not because one of you is "right" and the other one of you is "wrong," etc., but because both of you have really voiced concerns that warrant all the thinking that we can muster. Yet right now we're all getting farther and farther afield from the concerns of the OP. I, for one, would relish it if this particular discussion ("arts vs. sports in Cincinnati") took off on its own. Yes, I'm sure it's been tackled before, but why not again? Which one of you wants to initiate a new thread just for this purpose?
Not me.

I support both institutions. I've said before that I'm a partial season ticket holder with the CSO, and enjoy events at the Playhouse, Aronoff and elsewhere. I took my friend to the Cincinnati Art Museum over the Thanksgiving holiday (my first visit there in years) and we were both blown away by how amazing it is and some of the important pieces that we have here. I also support the local pro teams and am a big fan of both. I support UC also, to an extent, but my main college loyalties lie with the Buckeyes and Flyers. Of course I'd never support Xavier under any circumstances. Bengals tailgates and games are among my most favorite things to do. When I lived out west, I would fly home a couple of times a season just to go to the game with friends. Often I caught a Sunday night flight out of CVG back to Denver right after the game.

So I'm not getting into that one. This city is more than 2.2 million people strong and more than 3 million if you count Dayton. For crying out loud it's more than big enough for both ventures to be successful and supported. It's not a one vs. the other type of thing.
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Old 12-10-2011, 07:46 AM
 
2,886 posts, read 3,949,834 times
Reputation: 1499
Quote:
Originally Posted by motorman View Post
Hey, abr7rmj and Sarah Perry--as an active onlooker, I'm following this exchange between you two with deep interest--and not because one of you is "right" and the other one of you is "wrong," etc., but because both of you have really voiced concerns that warrant all the thinking that we can muster. Yet right now we're all getting farther and farther afield from the concerns of the OP. I, for one, would relish it if this particular discussion ("arts vs. sports in Cincinnati") took off on its own. Yes, I'm sure it's been tackled before, but why not again? Which one of you wants to initiate a new thread just for this purpose?
Not me. The community's priorities are obvious, and should send a clear signal to anyone thinking about settling here. When so many resources are directed toward the lowest common denominator, you can't expect to attract educated, professional people or the jobs that mean they can settle permanently in a community. But what the heck. It looks like in a few years we're going to have a streetcar.
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Old 12-10-2011, 09:34 AM
 
2,492 posts, read 3,652,150 times
Reputation: 1385
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarah Perry View Post
Not me. The community's priorities are obvious, and should send a clear signal to anyone thinking about settling here. When so many resources are directed toward the lowest common denominator, you can't expect to attract educated, professional people or the jobs that mean they can settle permanently in a community. But what the heck. It looks like in a few years we're going to have a streetcar.
Yes it should send a clear signal to anyone thinking about settling here, and that signal is this city has wonderful arts institutions that are supported by the community, are housed in amazing historic venues and that are the envy of most cities.

You're right - the signal is loud and clear:

Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra (the crown jewel of our performing arts organizations)
Cincinnati Pops
Cincinnati Chamber Orchestra
Cincinnati Ballet
Cincinnati Opera (second oldest in U.S.)
Cincinnati Music Theatre
Cincinnati Brass Quintet
May Festival (America's premiere choral festival)
Hamilton-Fairfield Symphony
Northern Kentucky Symphony
Cincinnati Playwrights Initiative
Contemporary Dance Theater
Cincinnati Men's Chorus
Know Theatre of Cincinnati
Cincinnati Black Theatre Company
Cincinnati Shakespeare Festival
Ensemble Theatre of Cincinnati
Children's Theatre of Cincinnati
Cincinnati Art Museum
Taft Museum of Art
Contemporary Arts Center
Cincinnati Art Club
Playhouse in the Park
College Conservatory of Music
Music Hall
Memorial Hall
Taft Theater
Emery Theater
Cincinnati Museum Center
Duke Energy Children's Museum
Museum of Natural History and Science
Cincinnati History Museum
National Underground Railroad Freedom Center
American Sign Museum
Cincinnati Fire Museum
American Classical Music Hall of Fame
Reds Hall of Fame/Museum
Lloyd Library and Museum
Broadway in Cincinnati
AIM Cincinnati (Arts Innovation Movement)
Art Academy of Cincinnati
School for Creative and Performing Arts
Weston Art Gallery
Cincinnati Art Galleries
Art Beyond Boundaries
Carl Solway Gallery
DAAP Galleries
Uptown Arts
Clifton Cultural Arts Center
Wyoming Fine Arts Center
Kennedy Heights Arts Center
Madisonville Arts Center
Carnegie Arts Center
Behringer-Crawford Museum at Devou
Creation Museum
Frank Duveneck Arts & Cultural Center
Elementz Youth Arts Center
My Nose Turns Red Theatre Company
Weavers Guild of Greater Cincinnati
Krohn Conservatory
Cincinnati Zoo & Botanical Garden (second oldest in U.S.)
MidPoint Music Festival
Cincinnati Folk Life
Blue Wisp
World Piano Competition
Pendleton Art Center/Final Fridays
Showboat Majestic
Covedale Center for the Performing Arts
Madcap Productions
The Betts House
William Howard Taft National Historical Site
Harriet Beecher Stowe House

Oh, and the World Choir Games coming to town in July will bring hundreds of international choirs with more than 20,000 participants from more than 70 countries, along with hundreds of thousands of visitors from around the world for its initial visit to the U.S.

Our misplaced, "lowest common denominator" priorities indeed. Yes, it's painfully obvious that we're really lacking in the performing arts/museum/cultural institutions category around here. Beware to all those thinking of settling here ... we have nothing to offer but heathen sports teams supported by redneck fools who embarrass the city by wearing their logos.

Last edited by abr7rmj; 12-10-2011 at 10:10 AM..
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Old 12-10-2011, 01:43 PM
 
Location: Mason, OH
9,259 posts, read 13,358,349 times
Reputation: 1919
I will also reiterate What's Happening with the Streetcars? During the time when the recent ballot initiative, again requiring a vote of confidence from the Cincinnati residents, what was happening? Apparently nothing. I thought once the reaffirmation vote came down there should have been some activity out on the street immediately. But apparently not. Why not? From the best I hear now late 2013 is the first optimistic operational date. Typical drag you feet in the sands politics. By the time they get anything done will anybody give a damn?
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Old 12-10-2011, 03:24 PM
 
2,492 posts, read 3,652,150 times
Reputation: 1385
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjbrill View Post
I will also reiterate What's Happening with the Streetcars? During the time when the recent ballot initiative, again requiring a vote of confidence from the Cincinnati residents, what was happening? Apparently nothing. I thought once the reaffirmation vote came down there should have been some activity out on the street immediately. But apparently not. Why not? From the best I hear now late 2013 is the first optimistic operational date. Typical drag you feet in the sands politics. By the time they get anything done will anybody give a damn?
I'm not sure where you heard that, kj. Everything points to a January/February groundbreaking on the project, with or without the federal funds that could be awarded later this month. Of course, with the funds, the system will be reinstalled to its original intended route up into the UC area and down to The Banks (Second Street).

Either way, I believe you'll see work start on the streetcar shortly after the new year.
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Old 12-10-2011, 03:25 PM
 
864 posts, read 1,196,523 times
Reputation: 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjbrill View Post
I will also reiterate What's Happening with the Streetcars? During the time when the recent ballot initiative, again requiring a vote of confidence from the Cincinnati residents, what was happening? Apparently nothing. I thought once the reaffirmation vote came down there should have been some activity out on the street immediately. But apparently not. Why not? From the best I hear now late 2013 is the first optimistic operational date. Typical drag you feet in the sands politics. By the time they get anything done will anybody give a damn?
Bids are out on the vehicles, and will be selected soon. TIGER grants will be awarded this month, which if we get money, will allow us to extend the streetcar to the Banks. Groundbreaking in Jan or Feb. Yes, by the time we get it done, I will still give a damn.
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Old 12-10-2011, 04:02 PM
 
2,886 posts, read 3,949,834 times
Reputation: 1499
Quote:
Originally Posted by CinciFan View Post
Bids are out on the vehicles, and will be selected soon. TIGER grants will be awarded this month, which if we get money, will allow us to extend the streetcar to the Banks. Groundbreaking in Jan or Feb. Yes, by the time we get it done, I will still give a damn.
kjbrill's impression probably came from a November 8 Channel 12 story: "Last night's vote clears the way to lay the tracks and roll out the cars. But what happens next? It appears to be a slow process. 'What we do now is we start planning. We'll continue the planning. Now we can spend money on the planning. The engineering work and all the technical kind of things that have to be done. When do we break ground? I would hope to say we break ground some time next year. I'm not sure,' said Cecil Thomas, Cincinnati Council member. Thomas says it may be 2013."

I guess everything about the timing could have changed in just the last month, but I'd be kind of surprised if it has. Or maybe Thomas is just completely out of the loop.
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Old 12-10-2011, 05:28 PM
 
Location: Mason, OH
9,259 posts, read 13,358,349 times
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I wasn't just commenting on when the ground breaking would be, but when will it be operational? If not until the the end of 2013 I hope I does it not operate on such a snail's pace.
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