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Old 12-10-2011, 08:13 PM
 
Location: The State Of California
9,134 posts, read 11,682,066 times
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Metro Cincinnati rail PT has been a long train running (coming), well slow is better than no .
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Old 12-10-2011, 10:54 PM
 
2,492 posts, read 3,656,446 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjbrill View Post
I wasn't just commenting on when the ground breaking would be, but when will it be operational? If not until the the end of 2013 I hope I does it not operate on such a snail's pace.
Groundbreaking in 2012 and you're lamenting it not being operational until 2013? This isn't like building a tree house in the backyard, kj.
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Old 12-11-2011, 04:37 AM
 
2,886 posts, read 3,955,279 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjbrill View Post
I wasn't just commenting on when the ground breaking would be, but when will it be operational? If not until the the end of 2013 I hope I does it not operate on such a snail's pace.
I get you, but first they have to actually start to build it. As I understand it, the holdup right now is that Duke Energy says it'll cost something like $30 mil to relocate the utilities and the City says $5 mil. I don't think anything else at all happens until there's agreement on that cost item. That could be the end of 2013 all by itself. Seriously. It wouldn't surprise me.
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Old 12-11-2011, 07:19 AM
 
Location: OH
361 posts, read 547,049 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarah Perry View Post
I get you, but first they have to actually start to build it. As I understand it, the holdup right now is that Duke Energy says it'll cost something like $30 mil to relocate the utilities and the City says $5 mil. I don't think anything else at all happens until there's agreement on that cost item. That could be the end of 2013 all by itself. Seriously. It wouldn't surprise me.
I unfortunately agree with this. I hate to be the pessismist, but that could very well happen, especially with a relatively large project such as this. Additionally, relocating utilites is not nearly as simple as replacing utilities, and is much more time consuming. I honestly would not be surprised if the first line isn't operable until 2015.
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Old 12-11-2011, 08:26 AM
 
Location: Mason, OH
9,259 posts, read 13,374,610 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarah Perry View Post
I get you, but first they have to actually start to build it. As I understand it, the holdup right now is that Duke Energy says it'll cost something like $30 mil to relocate the utilities and the City says $5 mil. I don't think anything else at all happens until there's agreement on that cost item. That could be the end of 2013 all by itself. Seriously. It wouldn't surprise me.
With all of the delays and public votes on the issue, why wasn't this settled long ago? Seems to me the construction planning stage, which should have been going on during the year for the recent referendum was totally lacking. It all adds up to me as typical politics.

We have this small item to be addressed, relocation of utilities will only be 7 times our estimate and take twice as long. And this is just the beginning. What was the City's TIGER grant application?, $56.8 million. And now we are told about half of that will be required for utility relocation?

And is the utility relocation cost being based on the restored original design if the yet not obtained TIGER grand monies are received, or the abbreviated design. If the abbreviated design, the utility relocation costs for the original design may be more than the entire TIGER grant. not yet received, value, leaving nothing for actual streetcar construction.

We are all used to it, cost overrun after cost overrun involving public projects. My own personal opinion is this streetcar will not get off the ground, that is actually running, for less than twice what the public was told. And that might be on the low side.
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Old 12-11-2011, 10:38 AM
 
864 posts, read 1,197,782 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjbrill View Post
We are all used to it, cost overrun after cost overrun involving public projects. My own personal opinion is this streetcar will not get off the ground, that is actually running, for less than twice what the public was told. And that might be on the low side.
I don't think it will get that bad, but if the cost does go up, Duke will be to blame.

I believe that a lot of the utility debate is over how far Duke will have to move the utilities. Duke insists that the manholes need to be moved further away from the track than the city wants, because they feel the overhead wires are a safety issue (even though no other city with these streetcar systems felt the need to do so). The fact that the utilities are decades old and need to be upgraded anyway doesn't help the matter.

As far as the actual ground breaking goes, John Schneider of the Cincinnati Planning Commission has pointed to a Jan/Feb groundbreaking.
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Old 12-11-2011, 11:38 AM
 
2,886 posts, read 3,955,279 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CinciFan View Post
I don't think it will get that bad, but if the cost does go up, Duke will be to blame.

I believe that a lot of the utility debate is over how far Duke will have to move the utilities. Duke insists that the manholes need to be moved further away from the track than the city wants, because they feel the overhead wires are a safety issue (even though no other city with these streetcar systems felt the need to do so). The fact that the utilities are decades old and need to be upgraded anyway doesn't help the matter.

As far as the actual ground breaking goes, John Schneider of the Cincinnati Planning Commission has pointed to a Jan/Feb groundbreaking.
I haven't been following the issue about Duke's costs, but once I did try to start finding something online, it hasn't worked. Are you going by something just that you heard with that kind of sweeping-sounding "Duke will be to blame" opinion, or can you direct me to a source that led you to conclude that? (I did see the issue raised on whether Duke should relocate the service so it can be repaired when needed without disrupting the streetcar service.) Thanks.
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Old 12-11-2011, 11:54 AM
 
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I thought it might be interesting to go right to the source and see what the City of Cincinnati has to say about the streetcar project. Well, since September 7, absolutely nothing. And that was a release about the cars themselves. Looks like back in May they did mention how the utility situation was up in the air. And people wonder why so many of us are distrustful that our tax money's going to be transparently accounted for and well spent. The City can't--or won't--even issue an update after the November ballot measure. Business as usual.
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Old 12-11-2011, 12:39 PM
 
864 posts, read 1,197,782 times
Reputation: 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarah Perry View Post
I haven't been following the issue about Duke's costs, but once I did try to start finding something online, it hasn't worked. Are you going by something just that you heard with that kind of sweeping-sounding "Duke will be to blame" opinion, or can you direct me to a source that led you to conclude that? (I did see the issue raised on whether Duke should relocate the service so it can be repaired when needed without disrupting the streetcar service.) Thanks.
I get most of my information from what John Schneider posts on the UrbanOhio forum. Cincinnati Streetcar News

He usually gives hints of major streetcar related announcements in advance, and gives good commentary as to why certain decisions have been made. It is a long thread though (over 500 pages), and I think that utility information was discussed about a year ago, so it might take some effort to find it.
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Old 12-11-2011, 04:01 PM
 
2,886 posts, read 3,955,279 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CinciFan View Post
I get most of my information from what John Schneider posts on the UrbanOhio forum. Cincinnati Streetcar News

He usually gives hints of major streetcar related announcements in advance, and gives good commentary as to why certain decisions have been made. It is a long thread though (over 500 pages), and I think that utility information was discussed about a year ago, so it might take some effort to find it.
Thanks. I don't think I'll spend that kind of time looking for year-old information. Seems odd that since Schneider is a city official, the city can't officially update the taxpayers once in a while, as opposed to somebody giving hints on some internet forum. Then again, what am I saying? It's not really that odd at all.
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