U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Ohio > Cincinnati
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 12-14-2011, 12:01 PM
 
Location: Oxford, Ohio
901 posts, read 1,950,209 times
Reputation: 691

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by abr7rmj View Post
The statistical information from other cities, however, does show irrefutable proof that development and population is drawn to streetcar lines.
It may be that the population along the streetcar lines has increased, but I think the point has been made that it hasn't necessarily increased the population of the city as a whole. In other words, how has the streetcar systems in those cities benefited the other parts of those cities outside their respective streetcar lines?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 12-14-2011, 12:10 PM
 
2,492 posts, read 3,652,150 times
Reputation: 1385
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjbrill View Post
Come on now, irrefutable proof. Maybe you should be running for national office.
Haha ... can I count on your vote? And maybe a yard sign or two up on your street?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-14-2011, 12:25 PM
 
864 posts, read 1,196,523 times
Reputation: 310
I drew no conclusions from the first graph. I merely said it was interesting. If you notice, the streetcar tracks were torn up around the same time the highways came through. I think the highways were probably the biggest factor in Cincinnati's population loss. I was just trying to make the point that anti urban practices such as highway expansion and lack of good public transportation is what hurt this city, and that is what will need to be reversed if the city is to grow in population.

As for the second graph, it was made using the official 2010 census data.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-14-2011, 12:39 PM
 
Location: Mason, OH
9,259 posts, read 13,358,349 times
Reputation: 1919
Cincifan... The only reasons the highways would have contributed to Cincinnati's population loss is they made it faster and more practical to get to the suburbs. Why is it so difficult to understand people fled to the suburbs to avoid the problems they encountered in the city. If the city satisfied their need they would still be there. These are real people dealing with their daily lives and making decisions as to what they believe is most satisfying to them. Yes attitudes may change, particularly with the rising costs of transportation. But the City still has a long way to go before any mass population reversal is in the cards. Start with the schools. If that does not perform an abrupt turnaround, it simply will not happen.

I keep reading about the City and its allure to the young professionals. Yes, footloose and fancy free with money to spend and party. Nice circumstance, until they get married, think about kids, and then it is off to the suburbs we go.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-14-2011, 03:46 PM
 
864 posts, read 1,196,523 times
Reputation: 310
Apparently people really love putting words in my mouth. I am in no way saying that everyone should live in the city. Some people fit well in the city, and some don't. I realize that the city was cramped and dirty back in the day, and I don't blame people for moving to the suburbs. And you're right, the schools are a huge factor these days.

This doesn't change the fact that this depopulation devastated the city. The city needs to start attracting people from this area and from around the country in order to improve. In my opinion, it needs to add jobs in the city, fix the schools, and make the city a nicer place to live. Adding lanes to a highway and demolishing buildings isn't going to do this.

Healthy city = healthy region

Last edited by CinciFan; 12-14-2011 at 03:55 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-14-2011, 04:00 PM
 
2,492 posts, read 3,652,150 times
Reputation: 1385
It's official: Phase 1 of the Cincinnati streetcar project will be extended to the riverfront.

Streetcar Gets Grant for Riverfront
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-14-2011, 04:00 PM
 
Location: Cleveland Suburbs
2,554 posts, read 5,834,490 times
Reputation: 619
[quote=Sarah Perry;22116507]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Traveler87 View Post
...I seriously hope you're joking. Lexington doesn't even have anything like the amount of development going on in Cincy, let alone something like Mercer Commons or Washington Park. Forget the bigger projects going on across Cincinnati. I mean if the construction of a new Applebees is your thing, than I can see why you would think that is great news!...quote]

It didn't occur to me that anyone would think I was comparing development on a dollar-for-dollar or per-square-foot basis between Lexington and Cincinnati, or any metro area of 2 million for that matter.
That's certainly the point it seemed like you were trying to make. Maybe we should word our posts a bit better, eh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarah Perry View Post
The first graph, I would assume, is easily fact-checked. I'd just warn you, though, that the other might be based on solid, generally accepted and documented facts, or may just as well be something someone simply decided to draw and post somewhere to make a point. I really don't know. There are absolutely no citations or explanations, at least not on this forum. So you really should be careful of looking at something you see online and thinking it "proves" anything.
Have you been to Tacoma? I was just in Seattle/Tacoma 3 weeks ago, I believe it "proves" something.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarah Perry View Post
Yikes. It's so preposterous to imply that shutting down the streetcars caused Cincinnati's population decline that it simply didn't register on me. I'm gonna retract what I said about the charts being "interesting." I'm actually embarrassed. Whew.
Where did anyone say that was the sole reason? You really should feel embarrassed if that's the route you are going to take this discussion in. I certainly would feel embarrassed about how you made Lexington to be the urban paradise it certainly isn't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CinciFan View Post
I drew no conclusions from the first graph. I merely said it was interesting. If you notice, the streetcar tracks were torn up around the same time the highways came through. I think the highways were probably the biggest factor in Cincinnati's population loss. I was just trying to make the point that anti urban practices such as highway expansion and lack of good public transportation is what hurt this city, and that is what will need to be reversed if the city is to grow in population.

As for the second graph, it was made using the official 2010 census data.
You're talking to a wall when it comes to other forms of transportation in Cincinnati. I have noticed many on this board think they know transportation like the back of their hand, and think they actually know the benefits and forward-thinking progress that comes with diversified transportation.

That's ok, when the sh**hole city of Detroit is begging for their rail funds back, and other cities extend their rail lines, Cincinnati can keep adding more lanes to its freeways and wonder where all the young people are going.

Last edited by Yac; 12-15-2011 at 03:01 AM.. Reason: 4 posts merged
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-14-2011, 04:24 PM
 
864 posts, read 1,196,523 times
Reputation: 310
^Very true Traveler87.

A quick story to address the bus vs. streetcar argument:
I lived in Dresden for 6 weeks this summer. I took the tram every morning at 8 AM, and there were always at least 80 people on the tram heading to work. One day (it was a Tuesday), the trams weren't running on my route due to some construction along the line, so they ran articulated buses on the same route and same time table. There were less than 20 people on the bus that morning, and car traffic was definitely heavier than usual. Maybe there were other factors involved, but it certainly seemed like rail was more preferable to bus by the residents. This was probably because the trams are 10x quieter, 10x smoother, and hold a lot more people than any bus.

Just sharing my observations.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-14-2011, 05:19 PM
 
Location: Cincinnati (Norwood)
3,377 posts, read 3,693,454 times
Reputation: 1746
May I politely encourage all of our hard-core suburbanites gathered on this thread to simply watch the many "You Tube" videos of streetcars in Prague. There are at least a dozen or more videos, several which take the viewer on extended rides throughout that remarkable city. As CinciFan just pointed out about the people of Dresden, many European cities revere their streetcars. I'm only sorry that we in Cincinnati act like we've never even seen one, unless it was one those antiquated ones that the Enquirer keeps fostering upon us, hoping that we won't recognize the difference between then and now.

P.S. Yes, I'm well aware that the conditions under which Prague's extensive streetcar network thrives cannot and should not be our model of operation. All I'm asking is that everyone here familiarize themselves with probably some of the best shots of streetcars anywhere. What will our streetcars look like? Just turn to Portland to see...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-14-2011, 05:29 PM
 
Location: Oxford, Ohio
901 posts, read 1,950,209 times
Reputation: 691
Quote:
Originally Posted by motorman View Post
May I politely encourage all of our hard-core suburbanites gathered on this thread...
What exactly is that supposed to mean? What difference does it make if we watch those videos? It's not exactly like the streetcars will affect us....or are you advocating that we all move downtown?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Options
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2016 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Ohio > Cincinnati
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top