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Old 12-15-2011, 10:45 AM
 
2,492 posts, read 3,654,078 times
Reputation: 1385

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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjbrill View Post
Hopefully construction on the streetcar will begin soon and finish sometime by the middle of the decade, with a minimum of cost extensions such as the $25 million versus $5 million utility relocation squabble. Frankly I cannot believe there is such a gap if any real planning has gone into the project, which is one of my concerns. But it is time to move the project forward. Everyone has had their say and the proponents have won.

I am disappointed in having to wait so long to see a result. It will either be a great boon to the central city or a huge bust. If the proponents are right we should see a flurry of new development along the route even prior to its completion, just in anticipation.

Was I correct in reading one respondent's post the car capacity will be 110 people standing? How many seated? I find it hard to believe a modern transportation system expects people to stand. Of course that is how they do it in Japan, far more people standing than sitting. But that is Japan, not Cincinnati.

But that is just kibitzing. Let's get the show on the road so we can use hindsight to measure the results.
I submit to you tens of millions of dollars spent on redevelopment of previously derelict Vine, Race and Republic Street blocks north of Central Parkway as a good start, in part in anticipation of a streetcar running within a block or two. And not only are buildings that have sat vacant for decades upon decades being renovated, they're being quickly occupied with businesses and residents almost as soon as they're ready.

Also, the $70-some million U-Square development in Clifton is also filling up with retail, office and restaurant tenants even before its January groundbreaking. This could also be partially attributed to plans for the nearby streetcar line.

The current renovation of the old Metropole on Walnut Street into the boutique 21c Hotel is also directly on the streetcar line.
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Old 12-15-2011, 11:01 AM
 
Location: Bridgetown, Ohio
526 posts, read 1,259,876 times
Reputation: 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey View Post
Phillys Trams have gotten really popular in recently years , Ridership has gone from 85,000 (2007) to 120,000 (2011)
Ok let me dust off the ol' calculator here and see what we have... even though Philadelphia is quite a bit bigger than Cincinnati, let's just say that the new Streetcar is wildly successful. The price of the project is pegged at $100,000,000 Spread that over 10 years, and 120,000 riders per year. That comes to $83 per rider - and that isn't counting maintenance, salaries, fuel, insurance etc.

Isn't that a bit pricey for a trip up Vine Street?
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Old 12-15-2011, 11:02 AM
 
2,886 posts, read 3,952,248 times
Reputation: 1499
Quote:
Originally Posted by OlliesThoughts View Post
Well, I'm going to put my chips on the streetcar. Just bought a vacant storefront on the route, and I'm encouraged to see others moving in around me. You are all welcome to come visit our progress anytime.
I absolutely wish you the best. Despite my belief that the city can't afford the streetcar, I do get the aspect that those fixed tracks are going to give people interested in investing in the area something with more permanance than a bus route would. Will it be the same eventual boost to downtown that the skywalk system, for example, was? Only time will tell.
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Old 12-15-2011, 11:29 AM
 
2,492 posts, read 3,654,078 times
Reputation: 1385
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarah Perry View Post
I absolutely wish you the best. Despite my belief that the city can't afford the streetcar, I do get the aspect that those fixed tracks are going to give people interested in investing in the area something with more permanance than a bus route would. Will it be the same eventual boost to downtown that the skywalk system, for example, was? Only time will tell.
Interesting analogy with the skywalk. But with the skywalk Cincinnati was sort of going at it alone. Only Minneapolis had anything remotely resembling what Cincinnati tried to do with it. With streetcars, there is valid evidence elsewhere that the system does, in fact, work. We're hardly going it alone.

And the streetcar's main objective is to put more people on the streets; the skywalk, by its very nature, robbed the streets of their vitality in an effort to keep office workers warm. The skywalk did, however, foster a robust retail scene for awhile with the Carew Tower shops, Tower Place Mall, McAlpins, Saks, etc. all linking up with the major hotels. But it was fool's gold replicating a suburban shopping mall in a downtown environment. It wasn't sustainable. I'm sure business travelers and conventioneers loved it, but its successes were at the expense of street-level retail and vitality.
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Old 12-15-2011, 04:24 PM
 
Location: On the Rails in Northern NJ
12,381 posts, read 22,632,390 times
Reputation: 4504
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Ok let me dust off the ol' calculator here and see what we have... even though Philadelphia is quite a bit bigger than Cincinnati, let's just say that the new Streetcar is wildly successful. The price of the project is pegged at $100,000,000 Spread that over 10 years, and 120,000 riders per year. That comes to $83 per rider - and that isn't counting maintenance, salaries, fuel, insurance etc.

Isn't that a bit pricey for a trip up Vine Street?
Streetcars run on Electricity which comes from the Grid so theres no fuel ,Salaries wouldn't be more then 45k which is the standard outside the huge cities in North America. Maintenance shouldn't be that much considering it would be a new system. 120,000 number was a daily ridership for Philly not a Yearly ridership. Philly is behind Toronto which has over 250,000 daily Streetcar users.
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Old 12-15-2011, 05:17 PM
 
405 posts, read 753,853 times
Reputation: 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Ok let me dust off the ol' calculator here and see what we have... even though Philadelphia is quite a bit bigger than Cincinnati, let's just say that the new Streetcar is wildly successful. The price of the project is pegged at $100,000,000 Spread that over 10 years, and 120,000 riders per year. That comes to $83 per rider - and that isn't counting maintenance, salaries, fuel, insurance etc.

Isn't that a bit pricey for a trip up Vine Street?
LOL!
Well, I'm guessing the city bets it will lose money on the streetcar itself but make it up in tax revenues?

I don't mean to focus on trivia, but I hope they don't use the fabric seats shown in those nice Portland streetcars. Those would be terrible idea in Cincinnati.
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Old 12-16-2011, 05:26 AM
 
2,886 posts, read 3,952,248 times
Reputation: 1499
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey View Post
Streetcars run on Electricity which comes from the Grid so theres no fuel ...
Isn't the electricity actually the fuel? "..any material that stores energy that can later be extracted to perform mechanical work in a controlled manner.."

And isn't there a cost for the electricity?
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Old 12-16-2011, 02:58 PM
 
10,139 posts, read 22,419,547 times
Reputation: 8239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarah Perry View Post
Isn't the electricity actually the fuel? "..any material that stores energy that can later be extracted to perform mechanical work in a controlled manner.."

And isn't there a cost for the electricity?

I saw the fuel this morning heading to Beckjord in 16 barges. Coal.
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Old 12-16-2011, 03:23 PM
 
2,886 posts, read 3,952,248 times
Reputation: 1499
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilson513 View Post
I saw the fuel this morning heading to Beckjord in 16 barges. Coal.
I think the thread has probably taken a turn into an area of scientific technicality that will be lost on many if not most of the streetcar proponents.

Calm down, guys. Just having a little fun with you. I think even in Paradise they still burn some coal.
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Old 12-16-2011, 05:45 PM
 
2,492 posts, read 3,654,078 times
Reputation: 1385
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarah Perry View Post
I think the thread has probably taken a turn into an area of scientific technicality that will be lost on many if not most of the streetcar proponents.

Calm down, guys. Just having a little fun with you. I think even in Paradise they still burn some coal.
I've actually been to Paradise, Calif. Didn't see much in the way of coal though. Course, I wasn't really looking.
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