U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Ohio > Cincinnati
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 12-16-2011, 08:19 PM
 
Location: Cleveland Suburbs
2,554 posts, read 5,836,275 times
Reputation: 619

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolden View Post
I looked up the Portland streetcars on Youtube. They seem pretty good. I don't really have strong feelings about the Cincinnati streetcar-- I must be the only one. If it works out and helps the city, thats great. I think the hills of OTR, Mt Auburn etc are awesome. I'd love to see the whole area turn around.
Cincinnati is modeling their streetcars right out of the ones in Portland.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 12-16-2011, 08:23 PM
 
Location: Cleveland Suburbs
2,554 posts, read 5,836,275 times
Reputation: 619
Quote:
Originally Posted by OlliesThoughts View Post
Well, I'm going to put my chips on the streetcar. Just bought a vacant storefront on the route, and I'm encouraged to see others moving in around me. You are all welcome to come visit our progress anytime.
Best of luck to you. It is people like yourself who come in and prove all the doubters wrong. People on this board fail to realize that good things take time, and that construction of the streetcar will not happen overnight. Good luck with everything, and let us know how it turns out for you.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-16-2011, 08:24 PM
 
Location: Cleveland Suburbs
2,554 posts, read 5,836,275 times
Reputation: 619
Quote:
Originally Posted by abr7rmj View Post
Interesting analogy with the skywalk. But with the skywalk Cincinnati was sort of going at it alone. Only Minneapolis had anything remotely resembling what Cincinnati tried to do with it. With streetcars, there is valid evidence elsewhere that the system does, in fact, work. We're hardly going it alone.

And the streetcar's main objective is to put more people on the streets; the skywalk, by its very nature, robbed the streets of their vitality in an effort to keep office workers warm. The skywalk did, however, foster a robust retail scene for awhile with the Carew Tower shops, Tower Place Mall, McAlpins, Saks, etc. all linking up with the major hotels. But it was fool's gold replicating a suburban shopping mall in a downtown environment. It wasn't sustainable. I'm sure business travelers and conventioneers loved it, but its successes were at the expense of street-level retail and vitality.
Isn't Minneapolis expanding its rail service throughout downtown? Crazy, a forward-thinking city that is seeing an amazing amount of quality infill.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-17-2011, 12:31 AM
 
2,492 posts, read 3,653,522 times
Reputation: 1385
Quote:
Originally Posted by Traveler87 View Post
Isn't Minneapolis expanding its rail service throughout downtown? Crazy, a forward-thinking city that is seeing an amazing amount of quality infill.
Yes. The Minneapolis light rail system is a great system. I got a chance to ride it this summer when I was in town. We took it to and from a Twins game. It was absolutely slam-packed and it couldn't have been more convenient.

It's things like that that our resident naysayers are either unaware of or they choose to ignore it. It's hard to imagine anyone visiting Minneapolis and not falling in love with its rail.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-17-2011, 08:07 AM
 
Location: Mason, OH
9,259 posts, read 13,363,536 times
Reputation: 1919
I also went out on YouTube to take a look at those Portland streetcars. One of the videos I viewed had the CEO of the Oregon Iron Works explaining they were the first US manufacturer of streetcars in over 50 years and they feel confident since the Buy American Act will favor them anytime Federal Money is involved. What really surprised me is she stated the cost of a new streetcar is $3.5-$4 million per car - Whew! How many cars is the Cincinnati system expected to start with? I don't remember seeing that number.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-17-2011, 08:08 AM
 
2,886 posts, read 3,951,520 times
Reputation: 1499
Quote:
Originally Posted by abr7rmj View Post
Yes. The Minneapolis light rail system is a great system. I got a chance to ride it this summer when I was in town. We took it to and from a Twins game. It was absolutely slam-packed and it couldn't have been more convenient.

It's things like that that our resident naysayers are either unaware of or they choose to ignore it. It's hard to imagine anyone visiting Minneapolis and not falling in love with its rail.
I was there years ago in the dead of winter and I fell in love with its skyway system, too. How's ours working for you?

Seriously, I'm starting to get a clue about what drives the streetcar fanatics. I think a lot of you've visited cities which for whatever varied reasons Cincinnati can never even aspire to emulate. (For example, our cultural heritage and political climate could not be more different from Minneapolis if it were located on the far side of Mars.) You quite reasonably WISH Cincinnati were like those places. You quite naively think that a couple of high-profile, costly, big-quick-fix projects will transform Cincinnati into a prosperous, forward-looking, economic and educational powerhouse.

I wish you were right.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-17-2011, 08:37 AM
 
405 posts, read 753,772 times
Reputation: 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarah Perry View Post

Seriously, I'm starting to get a clue about what drives the streetcar fanatics. I think a lot of you've visited cities which for whatever varied reasons Cincinnati can never even aspire to emulate. (For example, our cultural heritage and political climate could not be more different from Minneapolis if it were located on the far side of Mars.)
Well I have been to some of these other cities didn't think they were all that great. I think the geography of OTR is really quite spectacular.

Sure Cincinnati won't ever be San Francisco, but thats a lot to ask.

On the other hand, I agree the streetcar project won't make this city rise too far. Lots of other things have to happen.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-17-2011, 10:11 AM
 
2,492 posts, read 3,653,522 times
Reputation: 1385
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarah Perry View Post
I was there years ago in the dead of winter and I fell in love with its skyway system, too. How's ours working for you?

Seriously, I'm starting to get a clue about what drives the streetcar fanatics. I think a lot of you've visited cities which for whatever varied reasons Cincinnati can never even aspire to emulate. (For example, our cultural heritage and political climate could not be more different from Minneapolis if it were located on the far side of Mars.) You quite reasonably WISH Cincinnati were like those places. You quite naively think that a couple of high-profile, costly, big-quick-fix projects will transform Cincinnati into a prosperous, forward-looking, economic and educational powerhouse.

I wish you were right.
I'm sorry, are you under the impression that I favor skywalks? Your "How's ours working for you" implies that I want them. Nothing could be further from the truth. I practically guided a ticker-tape parade down Vine Street when the announcement was made that the Fountain Square skywalk and stage would be demolished. When I worked downtown around 2000 to 2005, I rarely if ever used the system, unless it was pouring rain and I had no umbrella. I didn't care for the revolving door hamster tubes that crisscrossed downtown then, and I'm certainly not upset that they're gone. The walkways leading to Riverfront Stadium were particularly heinous.

Please don't make assumptions of what I do and do not like. I believe I stated earlier this summer after my trip to Minneapolis that I was somewhat disappointed in the city, but that had absolutely nothing to do with its beautiful and efficient light rail system (or Target Field, for that matter). Granted I was only there for four days, but I never got a vibe that clicked with me personally.

And I think you're greatly exaggerating the Cincinnati/Minneapolis difference. Both are home to major universities, both are home to multiple F500 companies, both are home to professional sports in separate downtown stadiums, both have downtown rivers,

Sure there are differences (weather, airport, state capital presence, NHL team, to name a few), just as there are with any city. Their No. 1 tourist attraction is a shopping mall; ours isn't. And there are plenty of things that Cincinnati has that Minneapolis can't touch. For example, I'm sure Minny would kill to have a neighborhood overlooking downtown like Mount Adams since that city is pool table flat. Their architecture is also lacking compared to Cincinnati, and they don't have anything like the Suspension Bridge, Music Hall, etc. And they're ISOLATED: There's little within a five-hour drive. That's great for the outdoors scene in Minnesota and northern Wisconsin, but they don't have near the driving access to other markets that we do. Drive three hours from Minneapolis and you're in Fargo. Or a portion of the way to Milwaukee. Period.

Are there things about it that I'd love to see here? Absolutely. Are there things in Dayton that I'd also like to see in Cincinnati? Yup. But for you to imply that I or others wish Cincinnati would replicate Minny or any other city exactly is hilarious - and wrong.

Last edited by abr7rmj; 12-17-2011 at 10:19 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-17-2011, 03:35 PM
 
864 posts, read 1,196,883 times
Reputation: 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarah Perry View Post
I was there years ago in the dead of winter and I fell in love with its skyway system, too. How's ours working for you?

Seriously, I'm starting to get a clue about what drives the streetcar fanatics. I think a lot of you've visited cities which for whatever varied reasons Cincinnati can never even aspire to emulate. (For example, our cultural heritage and political climate could not be more different from Minneapolis if it were located on the far side of Mars.) You quite reasonably WISH Cincinnati were like those places. You quite naively think that a couple of high-profile, costly, big-quick-fix projects will transform Cincinnati into a prosperous, forward-looking, economic and educational powerhouse.

I wish you were right.
You are right and wrong. When I travel to other cities, it makes me appreciate what we have here in Cincinnati even more.

For example, when I go to Columbus, I really come to appreciate Cincinnati's hilly topography, as it is much more exciting than flat, boring Columbus. Whenever I go to Indy, I really appreciate that Cincinnati has so many neighborhoods with great architecture. Sure, there are things in other cities that I would love to see here, but all cities are different and all cities can learn from each other. Me (and I guess all of these so called "streetcar fanatics", as you put it) just want Cincinnati to do what it can to maximize its potential, and really capitalize on its strengths, as opposed to focusing on the negative.

Edit: abr got it exactly right.

Last edited by CinciFan; 12-17-2011 at 03:43 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-17-2011, 03:43 PM
 
864 posts, read 1,196,883 times
Reputation: 310
Also, here is an old (September) City Beat piece on the utilies debate.

Monzel's Motion May Backfire on MSD
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Options
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2016 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Ohio > Cincinnati
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top