What's With The Streetcars? (Cincinnati, Kent: unemployment, property taxes, standard of living)

[Sarah Perry]

Originally Posted by CinciFan

... Me (and I guess all of these so called "streetcar fanatics", as you put it) just want Cincinnati to do what it can to maximize its potential, and really capitalize on its strengths, as opposed to focusing on the negative...

I want that, also. I don't think more borrowing for large-scale projects when by all accounts the city is in extremely dire financial straits already amounts to capitalizing on its strengths. It's like saying you MUST go out and buy a $2 million dollar house when you're already barely able to make the minimum payments on the debt you already have. With the rationale that you won't be able to earn more money in the future unless you can invite prospective employers or clients to an opulent home that proves how successful you are already.

This disconnect is, by all indications, largely generational. A lot of people my age simply have a different value system from the people who're driving this desire to live in a city that's a squillion dollars in debt.

[CinciFan]

Originally Posted by Sarah Perry

This disconnect is, by all indications, largely generational. A lot of people my age simply have a different value system from the people who're driving this desire to live in a city that's a squillion dollars in debt.

The best way for Cincy to get out of debt is to attract new residents, and therefore, their tax money!

But really, I think we do understand where each other are coming from and we both want the city to improve, we just want to go about doing this in different ways. And I think that's okay. It just leads to bickering from time to time.

I just hate how this issue was made to be political when it really doesn't have to be. One doesn't need to be a liberal to support things like a streetcar (I'm certainly not). Look at Salt Lake City for example. They are one of the most conservative cities in the US, but over just the past decade have built 3 light rail lines, are currently constructing a commuter rail line, and are planning a streetcar system. Oh well, I guess that's life...

[unusualfire]

Originally Posted by CinciFan

The best way for Cincy to get out of debt is to attract new residents, and therefore, their tax money!

But really, I think we do understand where each other are coming from and we both want the city to improve, we just want to go about doing this in different ways. And I think that's okay. It just leads to bickering from time to time.

I just hate how this issue was made to be political when it really doesn't have to be. One doesn't need to be a liberal to support things like a streetcar (I'm certainly not). Look at Salt Lake City for example. They are one of the most conservative cities in the US, but over just the past decade have built 3 light rail lines, are currently constructing a commuter rail line, and are planning a streetcar system. Oh well, I guess that's life...

Well Salt Lake City has the support of the state and don't get funds yanked away from them.

[Matthew Hall]

the best way for cincinnati and the U.S. to get out of debt is to stop subsidizing suburbia massively through mortgage interest deductions, fannie mae buying all the mortgages, and putting money from general taxation into the highway fund. let suburban drivers pay for suburban roads.

[The Don]

Originally Posted by CinciFan

The best way for Cincy to get out of debt is to attract new residents, and therefore, their tax money!

Just curious, how many new residents is the streetcar going to attract? And how will their incomes affect the tax revenue to the city?

[kjbrill]

Originally Posted by The Don

Just curious, how many new residents is the streetcar going to attract? And how will their incomes affect the tax revenue to the city?

Frankly I would have to say marginally. Compared to those who live outside of the City and pay income tax to work in the City, I would have to say the numbers, even including their property tax, will not be all that significant. But this is how numbers do not tell the whole story.

I have had dificulty determining the figures for those who work in the City and pay income tax for that privilege but who do not live there. I feel it is with good reason they do not publish the actual data.

[kjbrill]

One post I mentioned a little earlier indicated the cost for a single streetcar is between $3.5 - $4 million dollars - WOW! I was suprised to not even receive a response to this. So once they spend the roughly $100,000,000 amount to develop and build the initial abbreviated streetcar route, hopefully including the Banks extension, just how much money will be availabled to put actual cars on the track?

[CinciFan]

Originally Posted by kjbrill

One post I mentioned a little earlier indicated the cost for a single streetcar is between $3.5 - $4 million dollars - WOW! I was suprised to not even receive a response to this. So once they spend the roughly $100,000,000 amount to develop and build the initial abbreviated streetcar route, hopefully including the Banks extension, just how much money will be availabled to put actual cars on the track?

That number includes the Streetcars kjbrill. The original route from the Banks to UC called for 7 streetcars I believe. I am not sure what the number is without the uptown extension.

Just so everyone knows, the city is weighing 7 different streetcar options, 2 of which do not require an overhead wire.

@The Don: I was just being facetious. Only time will tell how successful the streetcar is at attracting new residents and businesses.

[wolden]

Originally Posted by kjbrill

I have had dificulty determining the figures for those who work in the City and pay income tax for that privilege but who do not live there. I feel it is with good reason they do not publish the actual data.

The 269 page annual City of Cincinnati financial report (required by law) is posted on the City's website, you mean that info is not in there?

[wolden]

Originally Posted by kjbrill

I have had dificulty determining the figures for those who work in the City and pay income tax for that privilege but who do not live there. I feel it is with good reason they do not publish the actual data.

The information was right there on page 40 or so of the annual report. Here you go.

Revenues: 2010
Program Revenues:
Charges for Services $ 148,478
Operating Grants and
Contributions 64,475
Capital Grants and
Contributions 23,436
General Revenues:
Property Taxes 51,509
Income Taxes 297,636
Admission Taxes 4,174
Shared Taxes 64,714
Occupancy Taxes 2,007
Unrestricted Investment Earnings 10,861
Miscellaneous 27,380
Total Revenues 694,670

Note that the table itself, as standard for financial reports, shows the 2010 vs 2009, but I could not paste it effectively. BUT property taxes dropped a stunning 36% from FY 2009 to 2010!!! Did anyone else hear this previously?

Income tax is BY FAR the largest contributor to revenue, at 42.8% of all revenue.