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Old 08-02-2011, 01:44 PM
 
Location: On the Rails in Northern NJ
12,381 posts, read 22,747,745 times
Reputation: 4504

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crew Chief View Post
Um, I-75 is THE North-South NAFTA route between MI/Canada & Florida. LOTS of highway users, not the least of which are several thousand trucks every day. So the Mill Creek is more than just a Cincinnati project. As I've previously stated, I LOVE street cars, busses and the rest of the mass transit vehicles. But we are already heavily invested in highway infrastructure. We must maintain/improve them before we consider funding for nice-to-have-but-not-neccessary transit project in these trying economic times.
So Transit projects are an add on? Alot of cities are building up or planning transit systems , some cities like Salt Lake City where completely Auto-Dependent , now where starting to see a switch to Transit and a denser city. You have to start somewhere and if you keep delaying things other cities will take advantage of that and pass you by.

Last edited by Crew Chief; 08-03-2011 at 01:52 PM..
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Old 08-02-2011, 08:15 PM
 
Location: Harrison, OH
910 posts, read 1,393,351 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crew Chief View Post
Um, I-75 is THE North-South NAFTA route between MI/Canada & Florida. LOTS of highway users, not the least of which are several thousand trucks every day. So the Mill Creek is more than just a Cincinnati project. As I've previously stated, I LOVE street cars, busses and the rest of the mass transit vehicles. But we are already heavily invested in highway infrastructure. We must maintain/improve them before we consider funding for nice-to-have-but-not-neccessary transit project in these trying economic times.
Thats pretty much how I feel about the issue as well.

Last edited by Crew Chief; 08-03-2011 at 01:50 PM..
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Old 08-03-2011, 01:49 PM
 
6,351 posts, read 18,951,984 times
Reputation: 9895
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey View Post
So Transit projects are an add on? Alot of cities are building up or planning transit systems , some cities like Salt Lake City where completely Auto-Dependent , now where starting to see a switch to Transit and a denser city. You have to start somewhere and if you keep delaying things other cities will take advantage of that and pass you by.
Duuuude, I'm, like, totally with you! I'm all about mass transit. I love it. Would ride it if there were any way I could make it work for me. I love dense cities and I hate mowing lawns. HOWEVER, I'm also at the far end of 50 years on this planet. And LOTS of life experience tells me that, other than a minority of diehard transit riders like you and me (and the "economically disadvantaged") we can't get enough riders out of their steel cocoons to make it come anywhere near paying for itself. In Cincinnati. With the city (and Hamilton County) choking in debt. We just can't afford it right now. I'd be all for it if there was a sudden interest in everyone (and their jobs) returning to Rust Belt cities like Cincinnati. But for the short run, it's just not (and should not be) in the cards.

By the way, I'd love to take you across the Brent Spence Bridge in my big truck. Bet you'll come out of the cab with white knuckles...
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Old 08-03-2011, 02:19 PM
 
41 posts, read 65,159 times
Reputation: 33
You're right, ridership is not intended to cover the cost of operations (roads don't pay for themselves either). This is a development tool that is intended to spur development in the region, bring people downtown, draw money into the city, increase property values, and bring tax revenue to the City. And actually, it's already working. There is already development along the route in anticipation of the Streetcar.

Fact: The streetcar will create 310 jobs for construction, and 25-30 jobs for ongoing operations.
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Old 08-04-2011, 12:08 PM
 
2,492 posts, read 3,669,925 times
Reputation: 1385
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomomo11 View Post
I love it, when people are on the opposite side of the issue, they become "cronies". May I ask why you are so concerned with how we Cincinnatians spend our tax dollars, considering you live in Mason?


Check out this story from Madison, Wis., last week regarding the real reasons that so many on the right shun streetcars and virtually all forms of passenger rail, but have zero qualms about spending hundreds upon hundreds of millions of dollars on new highway interchanges.

In short, they have a real, vested interest in opposing rail, and it's not a particularly noble one:

Plain Talk: The real reasons the GOP shuns trains

The local NAACP's opposition is more vexing, and I suspect it has a ton to do with personal differences and petty jealousy that Chris Smitherman has with Mark Mallory more than anything else. Because, clearly, a streetcar and rail transportation would significantly benefit poor, urban populations that could definitely use transportation. Too bad that population is getting awful representation by the local NAACP fools.

Thankfully, the anti-streetcar group is having a devil of a time collecting the relatively few signatures they need to place it on the November ballot. And Smitherman is blaming rainy spring weather, of all things, for being almost 2,000 valid names short with just days to go to even get this thing put on the ballot. Because, despite what you hear on WLW or read in the Enquirer, the vast opposition within the city for this project simply does not exist. In fact, I personally know zero people who are opposed to the streetcar (well one person, but he lives in Dayton and is irrelevant). You'd think, with supposedly so many people against this project, that the COAST/NAACP gang would be able to set up a booth on Fountain Square one afternoon and there would be lines of people waiting to sign. That just isn't happening, and it's hilarious. And if they do scrape up enough signatures, I suspect that the measure would get voted down again in November just as it did in 2009 - this year it's actually much worse, since it would ban ALL rail investment/development in the city for at least the next decade (including the suburban holy grail of an eastern corridor light rail line). Even some people who disagree with the streetcar would have a hard time backing something that goes that far. I just don't think sensible voters would agree to handcuff the city that way.

Meantime, the Mason contingent must be pulling out their hair in helpless frustration since their voice and votes are absolutely meaningless. But, hey, we don't tell them where to build their Applebee's, so ...

Last edited by abr7rmj; 08-04-2011 at 12:46 PM..
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Old 08-04-2011, 01:06 PM
 
6,351 posts, read 18,951,984 times
Reputation: 9895
A couple of observations:

1. With Cincinnati in a budget crises, a street car that runs a route of ONLY 3 miles is just not prudent spending. Especially when they are talking about laying off police officers and firefighters. Guess we institute a policy where dispatchers send out a squad car on only every third 9-1-1 call. And we man fire apparatus with only a driver. So all he'll be able to do is stand outside the burning building and squirt water inside.

2. It WILL affect those of us outside the I-275 loop since state and federal monies have and will be pledged towards the street car.
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Old 08-04-2011, 01:49 PM
 
Location: Clifton Heights, Cincinnati
75 posts, read 148,979 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crew Chief View Post
A couple of observations:

1. With Cincinnati in a budget crises, a street car that runs a route of ONLY 3 miles is just not prudent spending. Especially when they are talking about laying off police officers and firefighters. Guess we institute a policy where dispatchers send out a squad car on only every third 9-1-1 call. And we man fire apparatus with only a driver. So all he'll be able to do is stand outside the burning building and squirt water inside.

2. It WILL affect those of us outside the I-275 loop since state and federal monies have and will be pledged towards the street car.

Your facts are not straight, not that this is anything unusually for those opposed. The fact is the vast majority of the money being used for the streetcar is being raised through bonds. Which the city pays back over time. Like any corporation, those with a majority of stock have the most say, in this case, the taxpayers and bond holders of the city. Not those in Mason who like to moan and complain, and often never visit the city anyway. No money from the general fund is being used to pay for this project.

FYI: Kasich pulled all 51 million of state funding, which makes you wrong about that source of funding as well.
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Old 08-04-2011, 01:52 PM
 
Location: Clifton Heights, Cincinnati
75 posts, read 148,979 times
Reputation: 83
Perhaps if City Council didn't force the police to hire officers it neither requested nor required, we wouldn't be in the position of having to lay them off.
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Old 08-04-2011, 02:37 PM
 
2,492 posts, read 3,669,925 times
Reputation: 1385
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crew Chief View Post
A couple of observations:

1. With Cincinnati in a budget crises, a street car that runs a route of ONLY 3 miles is just not prudent spending. Especially when they are talking about laying off police officers and firefighters. Guess we institute a policy where dispatchers send out a squad car on only every third 9-1-1 call. And we man fire apparatus with only a driver. So all he'll be able to do is stand outside the burning building and squirt water inside.

2. It WILL affect those of us outside the I-275 loop since state and federal monies have and will be pledged towards the street car.
So, you supported the original Banks ---> UC model that would have linked the city's two largest employment centers? You can thank our wonderful Gov. Kasich for that cutback.

But the plan is to eventually cover that entire area, and then go from there. Really, it's time for this city to start somewhere, even if it is with this modest plan. There will always be a reason not to do this project or any project - be it now, five years ago, when the economy's good, when the economy's bad, in 10 years, in 50 years, whenever. Frankly, in the history of this city, there's always been reasons to not do things. That's why Cincinnati's potential has never been realized. And that's also why we're sitting here today (on a day when more than 40,000 people headed to the Paul McCartney concert are going to have to sit in traffic, pay to park and, in a lot of cases, drive home either buzzed or drunk because there's no legitimate public transportation to get there) in a growing metro of about 2.3 million people with some of the most limited public transportation imaginable.

As to your police and fire eliminations: Are you aware that former CPD chief Tom Streicher didn't ask for or even want the extra 100+ officers added to the department several years ago? It was essentially forced upon him by city council as a knee-jerk reaction to the 2001 riots and did little more than bloat the department to an unnecessary and unneeded size. Streicher, who I'm guessing knows a thing or two about policing Cincinnati, realized that the city/department did not need the added positions and was against their creation. Of course, every time there's any crime incident whatsoever reported on the evening news, people overreact and think that the answer is to saturate the city with more and more police. Do you really want armed officers on every corner? And if the mere presence of police are the cure-all for crime, why are two of this city's most historically crime-riddled neighborhoods (OTR and the West End) within sight of District 1 headquarters? It's because the answer to reducing crime is better, more effective policing, not more policing.

For the fire department, contrary to what you may think, the overwhelming majority of what they spend their time doing is responding to ridiculous 911 calls where people sprain their ankles, feel chest pains after eating 12 pounds of ribs, drink themselves silly or slam their hand in a car door. The percentage of their time spent on actual fires is astonishingly low. It's just not a problem, despite your somewhat elementary example of one person squirting water while the invading British army torches the city to ruins.

Last edited by abr7rmj; 08-04-2011 at 03:20 PM..
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Old 08-05-2011, 08:01 PM
 
10,139 posts, read 22,539,956 times
Reputation: 8244
Here is what the future will hold for the toy trolley:

Hartmann floats sales tax increase | Cincinnati.com | cincinnati.com


When all the bills are in and the revenue never comes and the operating costs soar, as we all know they will, the bond money will not be enough and a tax increase will have to be imposed to cover their costs. Eventually, the trolley will die and its proponents shuffle off to promote other boondoggles, but the bond debt service will live on.
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