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Old 12-08-2011, 11:35 AM
 
Location: Cincinnati
3,335 posts, read 5,725,886 times
Reputation: 2058

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Quote:
Originally Posted by abr7rmj View Post
And Wilson513: How, exactly, are people trying to make Cincinnati hip with professional sports? The Reds have been here since 1869, the Bengals since the 1960s. It seems to me that those two institutions have been here for decades upon decades, and they're part of the established urban fabric of Cincinnati.
The Reds, yes, they are part of the fabric. The Bengals, maybe, but I don't know. The Bengals have been fleecing the community since the moment they came into town. It didn't begin in 1997. It's time for them to go. Nobody cares if about being a "major league city" any more.
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Old 12-08-2011, 02:40 PM
 
Location: Cleveland Suburbs
2,554 posts, read 5,834,490 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by progmac View Post
The Reds, yes, they are part of the fabric. The Bengals, maybe, but I don't know. The Bengals have been fleecing the community since the moment they came into town. It didn't begin in 1997. It's time for them to go. Nobody cares if about being a "major league city" any more.
I agree, the Reds have a great history. Let Mike Brown move the Bengals, expand the riverfront. Easier said than done, but I see them going nowhere.
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Old 12-08-2011, 02:43 PM
 
Location: Cleveland Suburbs
2,554 posts, read 5,834,490 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crew Chief View Post
Sarah, I believe that applies, as well, to many (if not most) U.S. cities...
It does, it's just most people can't see beyond their white picket fence out in sprawlburbia.
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Old 12-08-2011, 02:48 PM
 
Location: Cleveland Suburbs
2,554 posts, read 5,834,490 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j.conger View Post
@Sarah Perry and Progmac.
Thanks! Those posts are very helpful.


@Moto
That's fine. I'm sorry you feel that way. Sorry I don't have my Cincinnati green card. I'm no different that most recent college grads; I'm no more special than any. Like most, I want to have a city where I can be active and have a community feel to it. The whole point of finding a city that fits you is reciprocity. People tend to defend and upkeep what they love vigorously. Like most young working people, I'll pay taxes, support community functions, try to be a good citizen, etc. Most cities are trying to attract young talent (See N.C. triangle area). But isolationism will get you nowhere except looking at an exodus of capital, a lack of an educated workforce and more empty lots.

Overall, Cincinnati seems like a nice town. I'll get off your boards now.

Cheers,
John
Trust me, I think you got him all wrong. He didn't mean anything by it.

Cincinnati is a great city with awesome urban amenities, good cultural institutions, urban neighborhoods that most cities could only wish for, and finally building streetcar lines. I hope Cincinnati can say goodbye to the negative people, and bring in a new crowd. I see that happening, but the people stuck in the past think they are right, and god forbid you prove them wrong.
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Old 12-08-2011, 10:02 PM
 
Location: OH
361 posts, read 546,109 times
Reputation: 468
The initial thrill of defeating Issue 48 was nice, but with all the delays and red-tape this project has experienced and continues to experience, I will have to see concrete being broken with my two eyes to believe Cincinnati will get a streetcar.

To my knowledge, a definite date to begin construction hasn't been decided yet. I've heard talks about constuction beginning early next year and having it up and running by spring 2013. I don't see that happening AT ALL, especially considering that utilities haven't even started being moved yet.

With the amount of time it took just to replace, not relocate utitlies on Madison Rd., I see it as virtually impossible for the streetcar to be operable by Spring 2013; even if construction started tomorrow.
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Old 12-09-2011, 11:59 AM
 
2,492 posts, read 3,652,150 times
Reputation: 1385
Quote:
Originally Posted by progmac View Post
The Reds, yes, they are part of the fabric. The Bengals, maybe, but I don't know. The Bengals have been fleecing the community since the moment they came into town. It didn't begin in 1997. It's time for them to go. Nobody cares if about being a "major league city" any more.
Nobody cares about being a major league city? Speak for yourself. If nobody cares then why do Bengals games generate by far the highest ratings of any programming each time they're on TV? Why are Bengals games (win or lose) front page above the fold (with main art) on the Enquirer the following Monday? Why do people flood restaurants and bars to watch Bengals games? Why, until the streak stopped last year, did the Bengals sell out every game for seven consecutive seasons at 65,000-seat PBS despite ridiculously high NFL ticket prices? Why can I not walk through any mall from Florence to Kenwood to Dayton and not see scores of people in Bengals hats, shirts and jerseys?

Yea, too bad nobody cares ...

And if cities don't care about being "major league" anymore (laughable), then why have previously non-major league outposts like Oklahoma City, Columbus, Winnipeg and Nashville bent over backward to try to lure a pro team to town?

Cincinnati is a metro of more than 2.2 million people and that sort of population expects to have pro sports. Name another metro of Cincinnati's size that doesn't have a pro team. Just because you may not care for a team or a sport doesn't mean that I don't or that others don't. I, personally, don't give a hoot about the Opera and wouldn't go to a performance if someone handed me free tickets, but I understand its value to the community and I'm grateful that our city has an opera company.

I love going to Bengals games and I love watching the road games with my buddies at various sports bars around the Tri-state. And usually if we don't have a table by 12:30 for a 1 p.m. game, we're not getting one. It doesn't matter what part of town we're in (so far this season we've done downtown, Hyde Park, O'Bryonville, Forest Park, West Chester, Kenwood and Centerville). So, no, it's not time for them to go. Good grief.

Last edited by abr7rmj; 12-09-2011 at 12:20 PM..
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Old 12-09-2011, 12:18 PM
 
2,492 posts, read 3,652,150 times
Reputation: 1385
Quote:
Originally Posted by Traveler87 View Post
Trust me, I think you got him all wrong. He didn't mean anything by it.

Cincinnati is a great city with awesome urban amenities, good cultural institutions, urban neighborhoods that most cities could only wish for, and finally building streetcar lines. I hope Cincinnati can say goodbye to the negative people, and bring in a new crowd. I see that happening, but the people stuck in the past think they are right, and god forbid you prove them wrong.
This would do more for the city than any possible new company or development ever could. I'd love to put them all on a train and wave goodbye as they left town for good. I'd feel bad for whatever city they ended up in though, since they wouldn't be happy there and would have to find different things to complain about.
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Old 12-09-2011, 01:36 PM
 
Location: Cincinnati
3,335 posts, read 5,725,886 times
Reputation: 2058
Quote:
Originally Posted by abr7rmj View Post
Nobody cares about being a major league city? Speak for yourself. If nobody cares then why do Bengals games generate by far the highest ratings of any programming each time they're on TV? Why are Bengals games (win or lose) front page above the fold (with main art) on the Enquirer the following Monday? Why do people flood restaurants and bars to watch Bengals games? Why, until the streak stopped last year, did the Bengals sell out every game for seven consecutive seasons at 65,000-seat PBS despite ridiculously high NFL ticket prices? Why can I not walk through any mall from Florence to Kenwood to Dayton and not see scores of people in Bengals hats, shirts and jerseys?

Yea, too bad nobody cares ...

And if cities don't care about being "major league" anymore (laughable), then why have previously non-major league outposts like Oklahoma City, Columbus, Winnipeg and Nashville bent over backward to try to lure a pro team to town?

Cincinnati is a metro of more than 2.2 million people and that sort of population expects to have pro sports. Name another metro of Cincinnati's size that doesn't have a pro team. Just because you may not care for a team or a sport doesn't mean that I don't or that others don't. I, personally, don't give a hoot about the Opera and wouldn't go to a performance if someone handed me free tickets, but I understand its value to the community and I'm grateful that our city has an opera company.

I love going to Bengals games and I love watching the road games with my buddies at various sports bars around the Tri-state. And usually if we don't have a table by 12:30 for a 1 p.m. game, we're not getting one. It doesn't matter what part of town we're in (so far this season we've done downtown, Hyde Park, O'Bryonville, Forest Park, West Chester, Kenwood and Centerville). So, no, it's not time for them to go. Good grief.
Fair enough. I enjoy watching the games with my friends as well. But publicly subsidizing professional, profit-making sports teams to the extent that we do is where I draw the line. They can afford it themselves. If they can't afford to make it in Cincinnati, I question the public benefit of propping them up.

Still, I do see your point. When I said being "major league" isn't important anymore, I was thinking of cities like Austin and Portland that people flock to regardless of the presence of sports teams. Salt Lake City is another, with only one sports team. LA doesn't even have a football team (although that is a whole different story).
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Old 12-09-2011, 02:10 PM
 
2,492 posts, read 3,652,150 times
Reputation: 1385
Quote:
Originally Posted by progmac View Post
Fair enough. I enjoy watching the games with my friends as well. But publicly subsidizing professional, profit-making sports teams to the extent that we do is where I draw the line. They can afford it themselves. If they can't afford to make it in Cincinnati, I question the public benefit of propping them up.

Still, I do see your point. When I said being "major league" isn't important anymore, I was thinking of cities like Austin and Portland that people flock to regardless of the presence of sports teams. Salt Lake City is another, with only one sports team. LA doesn't even have a football team (although that is a whole different story).
Portland actually does have a pro team - the NBA's Trailblazers. And they just got the Portland Timbers MLS team, though it's not one of the Big Four (NFL, MLB, NHL, NBA). Salt Lake also has an MLS team (Real Salt Lake) and the University of Utah now plays in the Pac12, which is major college sports.

Austin is a giant college town that revolves around UT sports, particularly UT football. But there's no shortage of pro teams all around Austin in all sports in Houston, Dallas and San Antonio.

I agree with you about the stadium financing. That's a national trend that is thankfully ending, though most teams have their new stadiums by now. And, yea, LA is a different animal, but the city is building a $1 billion football stadium to get the NFL back.
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Old 12-09-2011, 02:58 PM
 
2,886 posts, read 3,949,834 times
Reputation: 1499
Quote:
Originally Posted by progmac View Post
Fair enough. I enjoy watching the games with my friends as well. But publicly subsidizing professional, profit-making sports teams to the extent that we do is where I draw the line. They can afford it themselves. If they can't afford to make it in Cincinnati, I question the public benefit of propping them up...
Yeah. How come we can't throw that kind of money at various arts organizations, or at other things that would improve the quality of life for the thousands of people in the area who have zero interest in football, but have to pay to subsidize it for those who do?

I can just imagine the outcry from all the ignorant, Bengals-obsessed rednecks around here if the massive amounts of tax dollars that go to this downright embarrassingly inept football team were suddenly directed toward, say, the Cincinnati Symphony and the ballet company. But they expect me to just suck it up and pay for it without complaint.

And talk about something that makes the community look bad to outsiders? All the people running around with Bengals clothing, Bengals stuff on their cars, etc. It's like a big neon sign that screams "We love mediocrity in Cincinnati." "We have tremendously low expectations."

Geeze. You shouldn't have gotten me started.
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