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Old 07-17-2012, 02:25 PM
 
864 posts, read 1,200,451 times
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I have always dreamed of Union Terminal being the main station for intercity trains, with the addition of a large, modern train shed built behind the existing building. Passengers would enter through the main doors of UT, walk straight back toward where Omnimax is now, go through double sliding glass doors onto the concourse, and then take escalators down to the platforms.

Then, as far as commuter rail goes, try to have as many lines as possible stop in both UT and the Transit Center.

This is the type of system they have over in Dresden and Berlin, and they work great.
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Old 07-17-2012, 02:38 PM
 
Location: Mason, OH
9,259 posts, read 13,410,202 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CinciFan View Post
I have always dreamed of Union Terminal being the main station for intercity trains, with the addition of a large, modern train shed built behind the existing building. Passengers would enter through the main doors of UT, walk straight back toward where Omnimax is now, go through double sliding glass doors onto the concourse, and then take escalators down to the platforms.

Then, as far as commuter rail goes, try to have as many lines as possible stop in both UT and the Transit Center.

This is the type of system they have over in Dresden and Berlin, and they work great.
But what everyone seems to forget is how more dense the population of Europe is as a whole. The same exists in Japan. Rail works there because it is convenient to many people. Rail here is not convenient. In most of the Cincinnati area, you would have to have surface parking lots so people could drive their cars and park to take the rail. So now I have a parking fee so I can spend a rail fee to go into the City. And then I have to hope my car will not be vandalized.
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Old 07-17-2012, 03:01 PM
 
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Originally Posted by kjbrill View Post
But what everyone seems to forget is how more dense the population of Europe is as a whole. The same exists in Japan. Rail works there because it is convenient to many people. Rail here is not convenient. In most of the Cincinnati area, you would have to have surface parking lots so people could drive their cars and park to take the rail. So now I have a parking fee so I can spend a rail fee to go into the City. And then I have to hope my car will not be vandalized.
Yes, I am well aware that Europe is more dense. But, some of the commuter trains in Dresden for example, run out to VERY small towns which lack any form of public transportation. Despite this, ridership is good. Besides, density is less of a factor with commuter rail systems that are meant to connect cities to the outlying areas. Density, however, is the main factor when planning an urban rail system like a subway or light rail.

How can you say commuter rail here in Cincinnati is inconvenient? Do we have a line up and running that I don't know about? Commuter rail was plenty convenient in DC when I just drove to the station, parked in the parking garage, and took the train into the city. I see absolutely no reason why the same couldn't work here.
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Old 07-17-2012, 03:07 PM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
477 posts, read 531,294 times
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Population Density: Ohio - 282/sq mi
Population Density: France - 301/sq mi

see wikipedia pages on both.

I don't see too much difference here... Ohio is probably pretty good for intercity rail.
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Old 07-17-2012, 03:49 PM
 
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And according to Wikipedia, Cincinnati is more dense than Dresden.

Cincinnati: 4,473 people/sq. mile
Dresden: 4,173 people/sq. mile
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Old 07-17-2012, 03:58 PM
 
800 posts, read 700,348 times
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Talk Radio keeps lying about rail has everyone convinced that the US is "more spread out". This is certainly true of the mountain time zone, but east of the Mississippi River the US is as dense as most of Europe, with cities spaced at similar distances. Also, there is a lot of air traffic in Europe for 500+ mile trips and trips that are shortened by flying over water, like flying from Barcelona to Naples, or from France or Germany to Sweden or Norway.

My point is that the 3C rail approach could have and still could be a commuter rail approach, and commuter rail needs to terminate at the Transit Center, not Union Terminal. If a commuter service is created on the line all the way to Hamilton, then the line might have enough traffic to warrant its electrification.
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Old 07-17-2012, 04:07 PM
 
Location: Mason, OH
9,259 posts, read 13,410,202 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neilworms2 View Post
Population Density: Ohio - 282/sq mi
Population Density: France - 301/sq mi

see wikipedia pages on both.

I don't see too much difference here... Ohio is probably pretty good for intercity rail.
All those population densities indicate is that both have a fair amount of rural farmland or uninhabitable mountains. It does not indicate where the majority of the population lives. Where I live is about 1,700 per square mile. So what? It is still not conducive to rail travel. It is a car oriented suburb and is not likely to change anytime soon.

The argument for intercity rail also underwhelms me. Just who are all of these people desiring to travel between Cincinnati, Columbus, and Cleveland? All of the guys driving the 18-wheelers are hardly a candidate to be passengers. The families passing through on vacations between Michigan and Florida are in the same category. The traveling salesman who would have to have a rental car after arrival to visit their customers, where is the gain?

There are those who state there will be development along streetcars in the City because they require a commitment, cannot be easily altered or moved, etc. I can see some logic in this. But I can also see light/commuter/intercity rail service, whatever name you put on it suffers from the same characteristics. Once you build those tracks, stations, etc. you are committed. If you chose the wrong location or paramters they will just sit and gather rust.
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Old 07-17-2012, 07:50 PM
 
Location: West Palm Beach
620 posts, read 994,786 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjbrill View Post
The argument for intercity rail also underwhelms me. Just who are all of these people desiring to travel between Cincinnati, Columbus, and Cleveland?
For one, a lot of younger people around my age do. There's a lot more of us than you think. You know, college students, young professionals etc. The amount of large universities in this state alone, is enough to warrant passenger rail between our cities.
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Old 07-17-2012, 08:20 PM
 
Location: Mason, OH
9,259 posts, read 13,410,202 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by austiNati View Post
For one, a lot of younger people around my age do. There's a lot more of us than you think. You know, college students, young professionals etc. The amount of large universities in this state alone, is enough to warrant passenger rail between our cities.
For what is the purpose? Are you going to commute daily to class or to work after you graduate? To me this is a completely unsubstantiated number. Reminds me of the old build it and they will come syndrome. No, document a need and it may be built, if enough people believe it can sustain itself. I personally don't think it can.
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Old 07-17-2012, 09:09 PM
 
Location: West Palm Beach
620 posts, read 994,786 times
Reputation: 447
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjbrill View Post
For what is the purpose? Are you going to commute daily to class or to work after you graduate? To me this is a completely unsubstantiated number. Reminds me of the old build it and they will come syndrome. No, document a need and it may be built, if enough people believe it can sustain itself. I personally don't think it can.
Build it and they will come... Sure did turn our that way for highways. Rail would also make it easier for students to commute back to their home towns, which can be quite frequently. Teachers as well. Also, the amount of festivities and sports events would only be boosted by the connectivity of rail in addition to highways. It's really not that foreign of a concept and this being the 7th largest state, I see no way people won't support it. Why not build the infrastructure to
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