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Old 09-11-2011, 12:04 PM
 
2,886 posts, read 3,950,603 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t45209 View Post
...I also know many people attend Crossroads to use it as a social club, and, frankly, as a place to pick up chicks. What I've come to figure out about these open-architecture, free-form churches is that you can kind of have your cake and eat it, too...free from all the guilt Catholics and others have. I think this style of modern worship allows people to rationalize compatibility with modern morals. ...
Posting was so rich in stuff to comment on that I'm back.

Reminds me of two things: the big, wealthy, downtown Presbyterian church I worked for back in the mid-1970s in Lexington. Now THAT was a social club. Plenty of people who appeared to have joined so they could rub shoulders with the "right" attorneys, doctors, insurance agents, horse farm owners, etc etc etc. I say appeared because just repeating my post yesterday, I couldn't see into those people's hearts and minds and actually judge their motivations.

Other thing: all churches are just chock full of sinners. I assume the other people, you know, the perfect ones don't need to be there, and are somewhere else, like the golf course or WalMart on Sunday mornings :-)
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Old 09-11-2011, 01:06 PM
 
1,130 posts, read 2,023,021 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarah Perry View Post
Posting was so rich in stuff to comment on that I'm back.

Reminds me of two things: the big, wealthy, downtown Presbyterian church I worked for back in the mid-1970s in Lexington. Now THAT was a social club. Plenty of people who appeared to have joined so they could rub shoulders with the "right" attorneys, doctors, insurance agents, horse farm owners, etc etc etc. I say appeared because just repeating my post yesterday, I couldn't see into those people's hearts and minds and actually judge their motivations.

Other thing: all churches are just chock full of sinners. I assume the other people, you know, the perfect ones don't need to be there, and are somewhere else, like the golf course or WalMart on Sunday mornings :-)
I agree. Crossroads has no corner on pretenders, however it is a more guilt free environment for those who are trying to reconcile modern living and religion. Churches like this give fuel to atheistic arguments that humans change religious beliefs and practices to suit themselves, rather than sticking true to boundaries of a faith. Obviously, this is nothing new. The Roman Catholic Church has been doing it for centuries, not to mention the Protestant Reformation, and the birth of the Anglican Church of England, to cite a few examples.
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Old 09-11-2011, 02:33 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,262 posts, read 20,865,688 times
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I've just got to point out that the following statement applies to Mormons to the same extent that it applies to Baptists, Presbyterians and Catholics -- every last word of it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarah Perry View Post
"We believe that all those, anywhere, who acknowledge Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord make up the one true church. The purpose of a local church is to organize Christians to reach unbelievers with the message of salvation, serve as a corporate body for worship of God, provide fellowship for Christians with each other, develop the gifts and talents of Christians for godly service, and practice baptism and communion..."
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Old 09-11-2011, 03:31 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
I've just got to point out that the following statement applies to Mormons to the same extent that it applies to Baptists, Presbyterians and Catholics -- every last word of it.
Not qualified to debate this or even comment. I was merely alluding to the reality that more controversy surrounds the question of whether Mormons are Christians than does the question of whether, say, Presbyterians are. Right or wrong, based on my experience I wouldn't be surprised to hear the Crossroads management to say Mormons aren't Christians. I WOULD be surprised to hear them say Presbyterians aren't. Which is what t45209 claimed. That was the only point I was trying to make. Or clarify.
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Old 09-11-2011, 05:04 PM
 
10,139 posts, read 22,409,188 times
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Originally Posted by t45209 View Post
Keep in mind, when they say "non-Christians", they aren't necessarily talking about Jews, Hindus and Moslems. They're talking about Baptists, Presbyterians, and Catholics. Last I checked, those were Christian faiths too, and the arrogance of identifying yourself as a true Christian as opposed to these other "sects' is an absolute turn off to me. I've been lectured about the "true-Christian" philosophy more than once, so I am quite familiar with the attitude.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarah Perry View Post
Sorry for responding to my own post, but it occurred to me DUH I could see what Crossroads says.

"We believe that all those, anywhere, who acknowledge Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord make up the one true church. The purpose of a local church is to organize Christians to reach unbelievers with the message of salvation, serve as a corporate body for worship of God, provide fellowship for Christians with each other, develop the gifts and talents of Christians for godly service, and practice baptism and communion..."

So, that looks pretty clear to me. Thanks, anyway.
I would say that t45209 has to reconcile this very serious contradiction arising from his claim that Crossroads disclaims Christian denominations..
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Old 09-11-2011, 09:16 PM
 
1,130 posts, read 2,023,021 times
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Originally Posted by Wilson513 View Post
I would say that t45209 has to reconcile this very serious contradiction arising from his claim that Crossroads disclaims Christian denominations..
No, not really. Notice that Sarah's quote includes the word "true", which is the crux of the matter. So, I'd say it validates it, but based on previous experience, it's pretty much pointless to argue. I'd like to think we are all on the same team, but there is an elitism about this that just rubs me the wrong way, and what is so laughable is that those who are involved in it can't see the forest for the trees... all the while claiming it doesn't exist. That's the contradiction. As I said before, I have had experiences with so-called "true Christians" since I was a teenager (including an entire year with a "true-christian" college roommate who now attends Crossroads) which support my beliefs on this, but I am sure those would not be admissible in your court, so I won't bother.

What I will say again, is that Crossroads has no corner on this, and it irks me when I hear the same garbage out of Catholics or Baptists. Believe what you want to believe, but do it without judgement of others. Man, if we did that, we might not be commemorating the 10th anniversary of 9/11.
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Old 09-12-2011, 05:18 AM
 
Location: Deer Park, OH
246 posts, read 881,963 times
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My family doesn’t attend Crossroads, but we do attend a similar church—The Vineyard. And I can tell you exactly why we do: Because the Vineyard is the only church we’ve found that openly embraces and accepts our special-needs son rather than treat him like an unwanted problem.

Other churches told us, essentially, “we can’t be expected to accommodate you.” “Be ye warmed and filled,” they said, as they showed us the door. By contrast, The Vineyard has made it clear that they will do whatever it takes to make him – and us – feel welcome.

Yes, the multimedia worship services are not to my taste. The music is, frankly, insipid. But they love my son. These ostensibly shallow and superficial people, who supposedly attend a megacurch because they’re afraid of “the real Gospel,” they’re the only ones I’ve found who are willing to minister to our son, to go the extra mile (hell, the extra ten miles!) to show him that he's loved.


Others' experiences are different. Surely other churches have vital special-needs ministries. But this is my experience....
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Old 09-12-2011, 05:32 AM
 
2,886 posts, read 3,950,603 times
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Originally Posted by tntnb View Post
My family doesn’t attend Crossroads, but we do attend a similar church—The Vineyard. And I can tell you exactly why we do: Because the Vineyard is the only church we’ve found that openly embraces and accepts our special-needs son rather than treat him like an unwanted problem.

Other churches told us, essentially, “we can’t be expected to accommodate you.” “Be ye warmed and filled,” they said, as they showed us the door. By contrast, The Vineyard has made it clear that they will do whatever it takes to make him – and us – feel welcome.

Yes, the multimedia worship services are not to my taste. The music is, frankly, insipid. But they love my son. These ostensibly shallow and superficial people, who supposedly attend a megacurch because they’re afraid of “the real Gospel,” they’re the only ones I’ve found who are willing to minister to our son, to go the extra mile (hell, the extra ten miles!) to show him that he's loved.


Others' experiences are different. Surely other churches have vital special-needs ministries. But this is my experience....
I remember you from your earlier postings. I'm happy to see that you took my suggestion about finding a church home. Incidentally, my much more traditional (and also large) church which is in your geographic area now has a Sunday School program for special needs children. It sounds like you've settled in at the Vineyard, but message me if you're interested.
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Old 09-12-2011, 07:34 AM
 
Location: Cincinnati, OH
112 posts, read 318,371 times
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I'm still looking at Crossroads. I been to a service years ago with my best friend. I would try and go to the services on Sataurdays after my son's football games if I'm not too tired. I've read their brochures and website and it doesn't matter according to them what religion you are. They do a lot for the community and city.

I know they have a lot of groups which is always good. I love to network and meet new people. My current church just has praise dancers, children's choir and people who help the pastor out. Lot of those I can't do. I can't dance and I'm busy with football till November.

With gas being so high right now it makes more sense to attend Crossroads since it's only 6 minutes from my house. I live up the street from Madisonville Rec Center. My current church is in Northside across the street from White Castles. So that's a long drive back and forth for hour of service.

The people I see at Crossroads are very friend and I have gotten to know a lot of them since I'm there daily. I'm sure its people who are Athesist, Cathiolic and so on that attend here. My point is who cares. We all believe in a higher power and come to worship and praise him. That's all that should matter not what specific religion you are.
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Old 09-12-2011, 09:09 AM
 
10,139 posts, read 22,409,188 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LaStar00 View Post
I'm still looking at Crossroads. I been to a service years ago with my best friend. I would try and go to the services on Sataurdays after my son's football games if I'm not too tired. I've read their brochures and website and it doesn't matter according to them what religion you are. They do a lot for the community and city.

I know they have a lot of groups which is always good. I love to network and meet new people. My current church just has praise dancers, children's choir and people who help the pastor out. Lot of those I can't do. I can't dance and I'm busy with football till November.

With gas being so high right now it makes more sense to attend Crossroads since it's only 6 minutes from my house. I live up the street from Madisonville Rec Center. My current church is in Northside across the street from White Castles. So that's a long drive back and forth for hour of service.

The people I see at Crossroads are very friend and I have gotten to know a lot of them since I'm there daily. I'm sure its people who are Athesist, Cathiolic and so on that attend here. My point is who cares. We all believe in a higher power and come to worship and praise him. That's all that should matter not what specific religion you are.
As I posted above, Crossroads is much more complex than first meets the eye. Like swimming in a lake. You can paddle around by the shore or swim out to deeper water. Its all up to you.

That's why seeker churches like Crossroads and the Vineyard are so attractive to people with a need for spirituality but religious ritual, not so much. In time, that may come. Maybe, maybe not. They will be happy to have you either way.

Good luck, I am sure you will be happy at Crossroads.
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