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Old 09-12-2011, 09:24 AM
 
2,886 posts, read 3,950,603 times
Reputation: 1499

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Quote:
Originally Posted by t45209 View Post
No, not really. Notice that Sarah's quote includes the word "true", which is the crux of the matter. So, I'd say it validates it, but based on previous experience, it's pretty much pointless to argue. I'd like to think we are all on the same team, but there is an elitism about this that just rubs me the wrong way, and what is so laughable is that those who are involved in it can't see the forest for the trees... all the while claiming it doesn't exist. That's the contradiction. As I said before, I have had experiences with so-called "true Christians" since I was a teenager (including an entire year with a "true-christian" college roommate who now attends Crossroads) which support my beliefs on this, but I am sure those would not be admissible in your court, so I won't bother.

What I will say again, is that Crossroads has no corner on this, and it irks me when I hear the same garbage out of Catholics or Baptists. Believe what you want to believe, but do it without judgement of others. Man, if we did that, we might not be commemorating the 10th anniversary of 9/11.
Call me crazy, but the quote "We believe that all those, anywhere, who acknowledge Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord make up the one true church..." looks highly inclusive to me insofar as people who call themselves any kind of Christians are concerned. So inclusive, in fact, that someone apparently monitoring this entire site for mention of the word "Mormon" showed up out of nowhere (well, actually out of Salt Lake) to say, "look, it doesn't exclude US, either." And it sure doesn't look like it excludes Presbyterians, as you claimed earlier.

Look, I've encountered fundamentalist Christians who contend that all other people who consider themselves Christians but who don't adhere to their own narrowly defined definitions of the term are not "true" or "real" Christians. Apparently you have, also. But you've completely failed to offer any evidence that the specific church we're discussing--Crossroads--officially takes this position. If you have any evidence to support that at all, let's hear it.
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Old 09-12-2011, 09:31 AM
 
Location: Oxford, Ohio
901 posts, read 1,950,606 times
Reputation: 691
Quote:
Originally Posted by LaStar00 View Post
I'm sure its people who are Athesist, Cathiolic and so on that attend here. My point is who cares. We all believe in a higher power and come to worship and praise him. That's all that should matter not what specific religion you are.
Actually, atheists don't believe in God. Such is why I commented above that the only reason they must want to go to Crossroads is because they think of it as a huge social club.

Otherwise, why would atheists go to church at all? Perhaps they, much like wolves among sheep, are only interested in infiltrating the fold with the desire to devour or sow doubt among believers...?

And for what it's worth, Muslims also believe in a higher power. Should they attend a Christian church to worship and praise Allah? They don't even believe Jesus was God in the flesh, or that he died on the cross and was resurrected. There are some people who believe we ourselves are our own higher power....New Age stuff. Should those people all worship with Christians under the roof of the same church? What about Hindus? Buddhists? Sikhs?

Christianity and pluralism are not compatible.

EDIT: I just want to clarify a thought. IF atheists attend Crossroads (and I know they are welcome there, per the Crossroads website), I don't have an issue with that - so long as they are there to sincerely open their hearts to the truth of Jesus Christ in the interest of becoming a believer.

Last edited by insightofitall; 09-12-2011 at 10:22 AM..
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Old 09-12-2011, 09:41 AM
 
10,139 posts, read 22,409,188 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by insightofitall View Post
Actually, atheists don't believe in God. Such is why I commented above that the only reason they must want to go to Crossroads is because they think of it as a huge social club.

Otherwise, why would atheists go to church at all? Perhaps they, much like wolves among sheep, are only interested in infiltrating the fold with the desire to devour or sow doubt among believers...? I have absolutely no respect for a church that openly allows atheists to enter the sanctuary...UNLESS they are sincerely interested in learning about God with the hope of becoming a believer.

And for what it's worth, Muslims also believe in a higher power. Should they attend a Christian church to worship and praise Allah? They don't even believe Jesus was God in the flesh, or that he died on the cross and was resurrected. There are some people who believe we ourselves are our own higher power....New Age stuff. Should those people all worship with Christians under the roof of the same church? What about Hindus? Buddhists? Sikhs?

Christianity and pluralism are not compatible.
Gee, that is such a small ball view, really.

I know "atheists" who are quite convinced of a higher power found in nature, but not in a god. In fact, there is probably more diversity in atheism than in Christianity as to what the atheist believes or does not believe.

As for the rest of your post, I find it amazing how much fear and resistance there is to a gentle pluralistic Christian congregation like Crossroads. I am not a religious person so I am not affiliated with Crossroads or any church in any way. However, I urge you to re-examine your thoughts on their mission and motives.
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Old 09-12-2011, 10:00 AM
 
Location: Oxford, Ohio
901 posts, read 1,950,606 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilson513 View Post
Gee, that is such a small ball view, really.

I know "atheists" who are quite convinced of a higher power found in nature, but not in a god. In fact, there is probably more diversity in atheism than in Christianity as to what the atheist believes or does not believe.

As for the rest of your post, I find it amazing how much fear and resistance there is to a gentle pluralistic Christian congregation like Crossroads. I am not a religious person so I am not affiliated with Crossroads or any church in any way. However, I urge you to re-examine your thoughts on their mission and motives.
Wilson, I have no need to re-examine my thoughts. I honestly don't KNOW if Crossroads embraces a pluralistic view or not, but either way I fear nothing about them. I'm simply stating the truth in response to the idea that we somehow all worship a higher-power and that it doesn't matter what religion we are. I'm NOT a proponent of interfaith dialog, as it contradicts the tenets of Christianity itself - which is that Jesus alone is the only way to God. Jesus himself stated "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me". - John 14:6 [NIV]

In Romans 10:9 [NIV], Paul stated "If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."

To continue, Jesus stated there was a broad path and wide gate that led to destruction, and that there would be many who followed that path. Likewise, he said there was a narrow path and narrow gate that led to life...but that few would go that way. It seems to me that pluralism is FAR from being the narrow path Jesus referred to.
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Old 09-12-2011, 10:03 AM
 
10,139 posts, read 22,409,188 times
Reputation: 8239
Quote:
Originally Posted by insightofitall View Post
Wilson, I have no need to re-examine my thoughts. I honestly don't KNOW if Crossroads embraces a pluralistic view or not, but either way I fear nothing about them. I'm simply stating the truth in response to the idea that we somehow all worship a higher-power and that it doesn't matter what religion we are. I'm NOT a proponent of interfaith dialog, as it contradicts the tenets of Christianity itself - which is that Jesus alone is the only way to God. Jesus himself stated "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me". - John 14:6 [NIV]

In Romans 10:9 [NIV], Paul stated "If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."

To continue, Jesus stated there was a broad path and wide gate that led to destruction, and that there would be many who followed that path. Likewise, he said there was a narrow path and narrow gate that led to life...but that few would go that way. It seems to me that pluralism is FAR from being the narrow path Jesus referred to.
It is odd then that a church which publicly proclaims its adoption of Christian belief as a prerequisite has got you speaking of atheists and Muslims.
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Old 09-12-2011, 10:05 AM
 
Location: Oxford, Ohio
901 posts, read 1,950,606 times
Reputation: 691
One final note...and forgive me for the double post...but it seems this is going to turn into a thread which would be more suited for the Religion and Philosophy forum. I don't generally engage in debates about religion and I find myself a bit surprised that I've even responded to this post. So I will not continue discussing this matter, as it can be a very contentious subject and I'd rather remain on amicable terms with people here.
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Old 09-12-2011, 11:46 AM
 
2,886 posts, read 3,950,603 times
Reputation: 1499
Quote:
Originally Posted by insightofitall View Post
...EDIT: I just want to clarify a thought. IF atheists attend Crossroads (and I know they are welcome there, per the Crossroads website), I don't have an issue with that - so long as they are there to sincerely open their hearts to the truth of Jesus Christ in the interest of becoming a believer.
Not arguing with your POV, you're just as entitled to it as I am to mine. I personally wouldn't put all those qualifications on the notion of atheists or any other Christians attending Crossroads or any other church. Just in the Christian tradition alone, there are many Unitarians and others who consider Jesus Christ one of the all-time most important prophets/teachers/historical figures/mythical figures/whatevers. Somebody who, or in whose name, a lot of really wonderful, profound, life-affirming concepts and ideas have been promulgated. Somebody whose concepts have made the world a better place even from a strictly humanistic standpoint. They don't believe in his divinity at all and maybe never will. If those people want to come to my church only to learn more about Jesus and they NEVER accept him as anything more than just a stand-up guy, I'm still all for it.
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Old 09-12-2011, 03:17 PM
 
Location: Cincinnati, OH
112 posts, read 318,371 times
Reputation: 50
I'm not switching yet. Just looking around.
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Old 09-12-2011, 06:26 PM
 
Location: Mason, OH
9,259 posts, read 13,360,925 times
Reputation: 1919
Worse than politics, I know of very few discussions revolving religion of any kind which do not end up very antagonistic and this thread is certainly heading that way. That is why I have kept my nose out of it up until now. I suggest we let those people who have specific association with the subject church advise the OP on their experiences and everyone else bug out.
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Old 09-13-2011, 12:57 AM
Yac
 
5,874 posts, read 6,290,826 times
I suggest everybody focuses on this particular church in a local context. We have a separate forum for all your general religion discussions.
Yac.
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