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Old 11-30-2011, 05:45 AM
 
6,249 posts, read 9,676,909 times
Reputation: 4661

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Quote:
Originally Posted by abr7rmj View Post
insightofitall really??? Bottom line: I love Cincinnati, not Charlotte. I could give a hoot about that city, their boring glass towers or their redneck NASCAR culture.
I think you should direct your anger at Chiquita and your local/state elected officials. Also, I hate the word "redneck" for two reasons. 1, it is an ugly racial slur IMO (I'm a black dude btw). 2, it is usually used to describe places in the south (when in reality, much of the south is more black/hispanic than the midwest). That larger hispanic population is one of the reasons why Chiquita is leaving.
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Old 11-30-2011, 08:10 AM
 
Location: Bridgetown, Ohio
526 posts, read 1,261,468 times
Reputation: 144
Exclamation Wake up!!!

This is a wake up call -- We need to analyse what is happening to our management type jobs and make appropriate changes.

We already lost our major power untility headquarters, most of our major bank headquarters, major retail headquarters and now this.

Sure the job lost and their impact on the local economy is painful but the loss of talent -- management, leadership ability is even worse.

If I were the mayor, I would start by having a major come to Jesus meeting with the leadership of CVG and Delta Airlines.
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Old 11-30-2011, 09:38 AM
 
Location: Mason, OH
9,259 posts, read 13,392,180 times
Reputation: 1920
Trying to get something out of Delta will likely be to no avail. With the Northwest merger, Delta simply found thmselves with two hubs too close together, the Northwest hub in Detroit and Delta's hub in Cincinnati. With Detroit being the larger metropolitan area, twice the size of Cincinnati, it was decided to go with the Detroit hub, thus the obvious shrinking of CVG. The complete closing of Concourse D with the downsizing of Comair, and the reduction in flights to other cities is just simply a result of discontinuing the hub operation. Without the hub operation Cincinnati is simply too small to sustain any number of international flights - not enough traffic.

But in comparison, I believe you will find Pittsburg, Cleveland, and Indianapolis all having the label International attached to them have no more if any direct international flights than CVG. I guess if you fly to Toronto or Montreal that qualifies you as International. But I don't hear many people complaining the lack of international flights is holding these cities back.

But I will agree Pittsburgh has many more airlines operating out of its airport. That is what is needed at CVG.

I don't buy the lack of flights from CVG as being the reason Chiquita is leaving. The reason is money, pure and simple. Charlotte simply offered a stupid sum of money, $25Mil to land 300 jobs.

Chiquita has been experiencing problems for some time. They have effectively been blocked out of the European market. They are experiencing significant problems with disturbances over working conditions and pay in their product producing holdings.
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Old 11-30-2011, 09:47 AM
 
Location: Cincinnati
3,335 posts, read 5,739,263 times
Reputation: 2058
This race-to-the-bottom stuff is so annoying. Talk about corporate welfare. What's going to happen when Chiquita's deal with Charlotte runs out? They're going to leave or force an even better deal. It is the same stupidity that has companies moving back and forth over the Ohio river whenever their Ohio or KY tax break runs out.
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Old 11-30-2011, 10:14 AM
 
Location: Oxford, Ohio
901 posts, read 1,955,046 times
Reputation: 691
Quote:
Originally Posted by abr7rmj View Post
insightofitall really??? Bottom line: I love Cincinnati, not Charlotte. I could give a hoot about that city, their boring glass towers or their redneck NASCAR culture. I want what's best for our city. Whether that's Chiquita (doubtful, since the company is on shaky footing anyway) or another corporation, I don't care. And yes, if a company moves from Charlotte to Cincinnati I'd celebrate. Because, again, I love Cincinnati and I want what's best for our city/region.

What's wrong with that?
I know you love Cincinnati. You're a diehard Cincinnati fan. We all get that. But that's no reason to cast shame on Charlotte and put it down simply because it did what it took to lure a company to its city. Don't get me wrong, I like your passionate devotion to what you believe in. But you act like a raving lunatic sometimes when things don't go the way you want them to. When are you going to grow up? You hurl insults at others, and think Cincinnati's doo-doo doesn't stink. But it's NOT the end all/be all of American cities.

And FWIW...the glass skyscrapers of Charlotte should realistically have nothing to do with this subject. But since you brought it up, I will personally say I find Charlotte's skyscrapers much more appealing than the short lackluster towers in Cincinnati and all that stale, dirty-looking brick facades that you find in overabundance downtown. But you know what? I'm not going to get into a debate about architectural styles, because I personally believe it's all a matter of personal preference. As they say, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by abr7rmj View Post
Incidentally, you'd probably be among the first (along with a few others here) who would be ready to riot and pillage down Central Parkway had Ohio or Cincinnati offered up that sort of ridiculous cash ($25M) to retain 300-odd jobs in a declining, scandalized corporation that specializes in the sale of a singular tropical fruit.
You'd be very wrong indeed. And as I said in another thread, I really wish people would stop making assumptions about me. It's getting really old.

Quote:
Originally Posted by abr7rmj View Post
Oh, and before we even get to this point which inevitably every topic on here devolves to ... Yes: Charlotte has plans for a streetcar.
Irrelevant. That didn't even enter my mind.
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Old 11-30-2011, 10:31 AM
 
2,886 posts, read 3,960,979 times
Reputation: 1499
I don't get all the drama about Chiquita leaving. Yes, the loss of ANY jobs is a Bad Thing, especially in this economy. But Cincinnati is just like anyplace else: it can't be all things to all people. Or to all corporations. Obviously Cincinnati had become a less-than-ideal fit for Chiquita. So they're going someplace that will presumably be better for them. Just like any individual resident would. Any why on earth abr7rmj is slamming Charlotte--or for that matter talking about how horrible a company Chiquita is--is just beyond me. I agree with the sentiment, "grow up, why don'tcha?"
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Old 11-30-2011, 10:38 AM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
12,793 posts, read 12,784,818 times
Reputation: 5466
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzzoff View Post
I've lived in both places, and your opinion of Charlotte would be in the extreme minority. It's actually quite rare to find a transplant that doesn't like Charlotte (and it's a city built on transplants). Cincy on the other hand? Not a real popular place these days, like much of the Midwest. Folks are fleeing the Rustbelt in droves (I had a dozen or so Ohio State flags flying in my Charlotte neighborhood).

I'm not here to bash Cincy. I met many friends in Cincy and have many fond memories. However, we need to be real with ourselves on the revitalization of the South. And it's not about cheap labor and cheap real estate. North Carolina has great weather, beach, mountains, great schools/unversities, highly educated workforce, diversity, etc, etc. There's a reason Charlotte remains the nation's 6th fastest growing city.

Bottom line, Charlotte coughed up the dough ($25M) and all Cincy could muster was a measly $6-7M. With not much else to offer, I'm not surprised at the result. Cincy should be DESPERATE to save businesses.
People moved to the Sunbelt, including Charlotte, for 3 main reasons:

1. Warmer climate, particularly for retirees.
2. Job prospects.
3. Cost of living.

While older people will probably always want to retire more to a warm place, the other two reasons are fading. Northern cities had their downtowns empty out for decades because of a lack of jobs, a lowering of quality of life, crime, etc. But all that has been gradually changing, and most of them saw urban growth for the first time in many years by the 2010 Census. The Sunbelt was still growing in 2010, but the rate of growth had shown signs of slowing down. The recession hit the Sunbelt harder than just about anywhere else, and most cities, including Charlotte, saw unemployment rates much above the national average. Even now, states like North Carolina have much higher rates and are well above Ohio. The economy in most of the Sunbelt is based on perpetual growth, not necessarily in the cities, but in sprawl. The entire concept of sprawl is declining in popularity as well, as it is increasingly seen as wasteful and detriminental to the cities it surrounds.
At the same time, all of that growth is gradually eliminating the cost of living difference between the Sunbelt and the North. Ohio actually has a cost of living lower than almost every city and state in the Sunbelt with few exceptions. Even Texas, famed for it's lower cost of living, is now equal with Ohio or a bit above in most cases and will only continue to get more expensive. You cannot have more and more people moving to an area and not expect costs to go up. They will. So basically two of the three main reasons for the rush south are disappearing.

As far as Charlotte goes, it has one of the lowest densities of any of the largest cities in the country. It has a huge amount of sprawl and a relatively light downtown. People here criticize Columbus for these things, but Charlotte is significantly weaker in these areas. It may have gained a lot of Northern transplants, but it's still quite Southern and Nascar is still way more popular than Ohio State. Basically, it leaves a lot to be desired as far as a city goes.

When it comes to Chiquita, they did not move to Charlotte because it was a better city than Cincy. They moved to Charlotte because it's about money.
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Old 11-30-2011, 10:49 AM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
12,793 posts, read 12,784,818 times
Reputation: 5466
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbancharlotte View Post
I think you should direct your anger at Chiquita and your local/state elected officials. Also, I hate the word "redneck" for two reasons. 1, it is an ugly racial slur IMO (I'm a black dude btw). 2, it is usually used to describe places in the south (when in reality, much of the south is more black/hispanic than the midwest). That larger hispanic population is one of the reasons why Chiquita is leaving.
Why would the larger Hispanic population matter in this case?
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Old 11-30-2011, 10:54 AM
 
Location: Mason, OH
9,259 posts, read 13,392,180 times
Reputation: 1920
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
Why would the larger Hispanic population matter in this case?
Yes, makes no sense to me either. In fact, I would think a larger Hispanic population would be more sympathetic to the conditions subjected to their people in the facilitiies within the producing countries owned by Chiquita and be anti-Chiquita. Does this intimate the Hispanics are in favor of Chiquita's benevolence? Everything I read says otherwise.
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Old 11-30-2011, 10:56 AM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
12,793 posts, read 12,784,818 times
Reputation: 5466
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjbrill View Post
Yes, makes no sense to me either. In fact, I would think a larger Hispanic population would be more sympathetic to the conditions subjected to their people in the facilitiies within the producing countries owned by Chiquita and be anti-Chiquita. Does this intimate the Hispanics are in favor of Chiquita's benevolence? Everything I read says otherwise.
Well, I'm not aware of Chiquita's record as a company, but a larger Hispanic population would come in handy only if the company itself was Hispanic (meaning perhaps a stronger base support?) or if the company believed that they represented a pool of cheaper labor.
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