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Old 11-30-2011, 01:24 PM
 
4,237 posts, read 3,292,610 times
Reputation: 1837

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
I don't think most people see it as a real possibility that they're moving here, anyway. That said, if they do, the benefits packages they've been offered are small in comparison to the investment and jobs they'd bring, so it would be a benefit to the state. As for the company's future, Illinois seems to not have a problem believing they have one.
Of course Illinois wants to keep Sears; its been there since the 1880s. Sears is a dying company, the cost of doing business in Illinois is suddenly an issue after 130 years? Sears is losing money and is in survival mode by trying to extort Illinois or any other state willing to take on its baggage.

Last edited by Kamms; 11-30-2011 at 01:40 PM..
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Old 11-30-2011, 01:40 PM
 
Location: OH
361 posts, read 546,925 times
Reputation: 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by progmac View Post
I'm a little more optimistic in the long run. Chiquita's move was about Charlotte giving them a deal they couldn't refuse. "hey, come here, you won't pay ANY taxes and we'll pay for you to come here." it is sort of hard to turn that away.

None of this is to begrudge Charlotte at all. Charlotte wants to be the next Atlanta and they'll do everything they can to make that happen. That is a legit strategy. The city is attracting lots of new, high-earning residents, just like Atlanta did for a long time.

But it isn't Cincinnati. Cincinnati is a low-risk, low-growth, stable city. This is an okay way to be, too! Our fundamentals here in Cincinnati are still very good and Chiquita's move doesn't change this. If Charlotte is the NBA, we're MLB.

All the stats I've seen show that Cincinnati and other midwestern cities do a good job of retaining residents. In fact, if a given person is born in Cincinnati they are more likely to stay than if a person is born in NYC or San Francisco. This means something and holds true even for the most educated who can go anywhere. The trouble is more related to attracting new residents. Improving old City neighborhoods is the key to attracting new residents.
I think that somewhat opens a can of worms. It might not be particularly that midwestern cities are doing a good job of retaining residents, but that a lot of these cities have been losing population for so long, that a significant portion of the remaining residents are poor and uneducated, thus being unable to move. A lot of the highly educated cities tend to be the most transient. Cincinnati on the other often ranks as one of the top ten poorest cities in the U.S., and a majority of the people I meet here are natives and have deep family roots here.

Please don't shoot the messenger!

Last edited by 13th Alphabet; 11-30-2011 at 01:48 PM..
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Old 11-30-2011, 01:52 PM
 
6,249 posts, read 9,661,414 times
Reputation: 4661
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
As far as Charlotte goes, it has one of the lowest densities of any of the largest cities in the country. It has a huge amount of sprawl and a relatively light downtown. People here criticize Columbus for these things, but Charlotte is significantly weaker in these areas. It may have gained a lot of Northern transplants, but it's still quite Southern and Nascar is still way more popular than Ohio State. Basically, it leaves a lot to be desired as far as a city goes.
Look at the 1st and 5th pic in the following link....
Charlotte Skyline – Spring 2011 - MetroScenes.com – City Skyline and Urban Photography and Prints by Matt Robinson

Cincy is a great urban American city. However, there ARE areas of Charlotte that even Cincy can take a few notes from.

Anyways, densities (or lack thereof) is one of the weakest arguments I see when a "Sunbelt" city (as some of you call it) takes something from a non-"Sunbelt" city. The bottomline is that you all should be waving your fists at YOUR leaders. Plain and simple.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
Why would the larger Hispanic population matter in this case?
Ohio officials believed Chiquita was already poised to move because of declining air service at Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky International Airport and other issues, including the lack of a bilingual workforce able to work easily with Chiquita's substantial operations in Latin America.
Why Cincinnati lost Chiquita | Cincinnati.com | cincinnati.com

Last edited by urbancharlotte; 11-30-2011 at 02:31 PM..
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Old 11-30-2011, 01:59 PM
 
Location: Cincinnati
3,335 posts, read 5,731,421 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wahl_Wrighter View Post
I think that somewhat opens a can of worms. It might not be particularly that midwestern cities are doing a good job of retaining residents, but that a lot of these cities have been losing population for so long, that a significant portion of the remaining residents are poor and uneducated, thus being unable to move. A lot of the highly educated cities tend to be the most transient. Cincinnati on the other often ranks as one of the top ten poorest cities in the U.S., and a majority of the people I meet here are natives and have deep family roots here.

Please don't shoot the messenger!
Fortunately, the messenger is wrong. Brain drain effects are grossly overstated. Especially when you consider the City's academic power.

You say a "significant portion" of the residents are uneducated. 27% of our residents have bachelor's degrees or higher. The national average? 27%. The myth that the remaining residents are uneducated is easily dispelled by looking at education rates through time. The reality is that most people from here either stay or move back.

We're pretty typical by most demographic accounts.
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Old 11-30-2011, 02:37 PM
 
Location: OH
361 posts, read 546,925 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by progmac View Post
Fortunately, the messenger is wrong. Brain drain effects are grossly overstated. Especially when you consider the City's academic power.

You say a "significant portion" of the residents are uneducated. 27% of our residents have bachelor's degrees or higher. The national average? 27%. The myth that the remaining residents are uneducated is easily dispelled by looking at education rates through time. The reality is that most people from here either stay or move back.

We're pretty typical by most demographic accounts.
True, Cincinnati has a fairly educated populance. I didn't say specifically that the residents of Cincinnati are uneducated, but I did say however that Cincinnati IS a poor city. I think part of what helps out Cincinnati's education attainment numbers are the amount of companies headquarted here, and of course the universities. It would be interesting to see how many residents here with bachelor's degrees are natives compared to other cities.

One thing that has perplexed me is that the Cincinnati area has Miami University, Xavier, and UC, among others, yet the area only has marginal growth. One would think, with the big companies we have here, combined with the univerisities, this area would be a lot stronger in attracting residents from outside the region.
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Old 11-30-2011, 03:29 PM
 
Location: Mason, OH
9,259 posts, read 13,371,704 times
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I disagree that Cincinnati is a poor city. Just the city itself residents may be on the low side of the income scale. But the Metropolitan Statistical Area as a whole certainly has a resaonable average income. And the city will be improving with such as the Banks and the gentrification of OTR. You can't have the number of Fortune 500 (10 headquarters) and Fortune 1000 (17 headqurters) companies, plus a presence of 400 of the 500 Fortune 500 companies, Cincinnati has and be a poor area.

Cincinnati is no different than the rest of the Rust Belt cities relative to the loss of jobs and populations. Compared to Detroit, Cincinnati is in pretty good shape. The Sun-Belt cities and Southwest Cities have done a great job of luring people away with their promises of climate, etc.

But look at Florida, practically decimated with the financial and housing collapse. Huge personal loses in property equity, etc. And the Southwest continuing to build and build in environments not condusive to human habitat. The simple lacking of palatable water will bring them to their knees. And North Carolina may be crowing now but did anyone notice the devastation caused by forest fires there this past year?

Don't sound the death knoll for Cincinnati yet. The residents here are pretty resilient, and grounded in what they value in life. This will see them through.
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Old 11-30-2011, 03:47 PM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
12,785 posts, read 12,761,529 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
That's why any company moves. If they feel they can be significantly more profitable in one location over another, then they'll move. And they usually feel they can be more profitable due to a variety of factors, such as infrastructure (the airport in this case), talent, taxes, etc.

Cincinnati is a great city and all, but this should cause local and state leaders (and citizens) to look inward instead of directing angst towards Charlotte. Either way you slice it, Chiquita wanted out of Cincinnati which is the bottom line.
I've never liked Charlotte, personally. I don't like much of the Sunbelt because it's so often hyped for things that are no longer true (cost of living, etc), and because I tend to see Northern cities as more dense, older with more history and culture, and overall just feeling more like total urban centers than the sprawl centers of the South and West.

This is not a referendum on Cincinnati or Ohio's leaders, per se. It's just the new business dynamic these days. Companies want to milk regional and state resources as much as possible and if they don't get what they want, they move to a place that will. It's basically corporate extortion, and it's highly unlikely that Charlotte will be the final location for Chiquita.
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Old 11-30-2011, 03:59 PM
 
Location: OH
361 posts, read 546,925 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjbrill View Post
I disagree that Cincinnati is a poor city. Just the city itself residents may be on the low side of the income scale. But the Metropolitan Statistical Area as a whole certainly has a resaonable average income. And the city will be improving with such as the Banks and the gentrification of OTR. You can't have the number of Fortune 500 (10 headquarters) and Fortune 1000 (17 headqurters) companies, plus a presence of 400 of the 500 Fortune 500 companies, Cincinnati has and be a poor area.

Cincinnati is no different than the rest of the Rust Belt cities relative to the loss of jobs and populations. Compared to Detroit, Cincinnati is in pretty good shape. The Sun-Belt cities and Southwest Cities have done a great job of luring people away with their promises of climate, etc.

But look at Florida, practically decimated with the financial and housing collapse. Huge personal loses in property equity, etc. And the Southwest continuing to build and build in environments not condusive to human habitat. The simple lacking of palatable water will bring them to their knees. And North Carolina may be crowing now but did anyone notice the devastation caused by forest fires there this past year?

Don't sound the death knoll for Cincinnati yet. The residents here are pretty resilient, and grounded in what they value in life. This will see them through.
Census shows city is one of poorest

Cincinnati is on this list quite frequently. I'm actually surprised the city has such a high poverty rate.

It's funny you brought up Detroit, because when comparing the two metro areas, if I'm not mistaken, I remember reading that the Detroit metro has a higher median and per capita household income than the Cincinnati metro.
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Old 11-30-2011, 04:38 PM
 
6,249 posts, read 9,661,414 times
Reputation: 4661
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
I've never liked Charlotte, personally. I don't like much of the Sunbelt because it's so often hyped for things that are no longer true (cost of living, etc), and because I tend to see Northern cities as more dense, older with more history and culture, and overall just feeling more like total urban centers than the sprawl centers of the South and West.
So, by your own standards of "what a city should be". Which one is Cincy more comparable to? NYC (Chiquita's old home) or Charlotte (Chiquita's new home)? If your answer is NYC, I'd like to see current density stats for Cincy showing a city that's well above 10,000 people per square mile. I'd also like to see high rise condos/apartments with well over 30 floors. Also, show me a fully functioning metro train within Cincy's city limits. Good luck with that...

My point here is that when it comes to Cincy vs Charlotte; we're talking about peer cities. Now, I know some folks might cringe a little at that statement, but it's the truth. As of 2010, the Global Ranking of cities places Cincy and Charlotte "one just under the other". Both however are in the same category (Gamma+ world cities).
GaWC - The World According to GaWC 2010

Both cities are different in age, design, look, and feel. However, they are peers (like it or not).
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Old 11-30-2011, 04:40 PM
 
10,139 posts, read 22,431,459 times
Reputation: 8244
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wahl_Wrighter View Post
Census shows city is one of poorest

Cincinnati is on this list quite frequently. I'm actually surprised the city has such a high poverty rate.

It's funny you brought up Detroit, because when comparing the two metro areas, if I'm not mistaken, I remember reading that the Detroit metro has a higher median and per capita household income than the Cincinnati metro.

Not only is Cincinnati richer by median family income standards but the cost of living is lower which means that Detroit is significantly poorer.

Kiplinger.com
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