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Old 11-30-2011, 06:03 PM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
7,795 posts, read 5,081,055 times
Reputation: 2656

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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbancharlotte View Post
Look at the 1st and 5th pic in the following link....
Charlotte Skyline Spring 2011 - MetroScenes.com City Skyline and Urban Photography and Prints by Matt Robinson

Yeah, those pics actually illustrate the point perfectly. You have a downtown and then it quickly fades to a very suburban feel. If Charlotte wants to be the next Altanta, it has that part right, at least.

Cincy is a great urban American city. However, there ARE areas of Charlotte that even Cincy can take a few notes from.

That can be said about the comparison between any two cities, though, so that's not exactly a strong argument for Charlotte.

Anyways, densities (or lack thereof) is one of the weakest arguments I see when a "Sunbelt" city (as some of you call it) takes something from a non-"Sunbelt" city. The bottomline is that you all should be waving your fists at YOUR leaders. Plain and simple.

Why is it weak? Dense, urban cities are quickly coming back. Magazines like National Geographic have published articles about how density and smart growth is what will be attracting people in the upcoming decades and that's it's already begun. Charlotte is behind the ball on this in comparison to Northern cities that were built when most people actually lived in the urban core and not 20 miles away. And all these changing habits will likely end the explosive growth of the Sunbelt.

I don't think Ohio or Cincy's leaders did anything wrong in this case.

Ohio officials believed Chiquita was already poised to move because of declining air service at Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky International Airport and other issues, including the lack of a bilingual workforce able to work easily with Chiquita's substantial operations in Latin America.
Why Cincinnati lost Chiquita | Cincinnati.com | cincinnati.com
Again, this is a weak argument. A bilingual workforce is readily available here in Ohio and regionally. It would not have been difficult at all to recruit them had Chiquita bothered to try. The real issue was money, plain and simple. I guess Charlotte has to replace the thousands of jobs lost in banking somehow.
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Old 11-30-2011, 06:18 PM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
7,795 posts, read 5,081,055 times
Reputation: 2656
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbancharlotte View Post
So, by your own standards of "what a city should be". Which one is Cincy more comparable to? NYC (Chiquita's old home) or Charlotte (Chiquita's new home)? If your answer is NYC, I'd like to see current density stats for Cincy showing a city that's well above 10,000 people per square mile. I'd also like to see high rise condos/apartments with well over 30 floors. Also, show me a fully functioning metro train within Cincy's city limits. Good luck with that...

My point here is that when it comes to Cincy vs Charlotte; we're talking about peer cities. Now, I know some folks might cringe a little at that statement, but it's the truth. As of 2010, the Global Ranking of cities places Cincy and Charlotte "one just under the other". Both however are in the same category (Gamma+ world cities).
GaWC - The World According to GaWC 2010

Both cities are different in age, design, look, and feel. However, they are peers (like it or not).
Cincy has more in common with NYC than Charlotte as far as density (almost 2x denser than Charlotte), archtecture, culture, etc, but if you are trying to find cities comparable to the density of NYC, there aren't any in the US. NYC has a density over 27,000 ppsm, far above every other major city in the country. In other words, NYC is in a league of it's own. As far as a train goes... well, I'd much rather have dense neighborhoods where people live. Cincinnati will get a streetcar, so it's a start. This just goes back to my point about how some cities have certain things others don't, but overall, I just find Northern cities to feel more like real urban centers. That's what happens when a city like Cincinnati matures 100+ years before a city like Charlotte.
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Old 11-30-2011, 08:39 PM
 
414 posts, read 874,023 times
Reputation: 279
Quote:
Originally Posted by abr7rmj View Post
And you claim that "redneck" is an ugly racial slur but it's used in virtually every other country song, comedy routines and is proudly self-attached by a certain segment of the Confederate flag-waving, NASCAR-obsessed South? Sorry if you don't like it, but the overwhelming majority of the South embraces it. Because of that, I'll use it.
The "N-word" is used in every other rap song, that doesn't mean it's not a racial slur. Your argument is weak.

Your credibility in judging Charlotte is also clearly not established. Charlotte is anything but redneck. Honestly, I see more Confederate flags flying high in Hamilton and Butler Counties each time I come home than I have in more than a decade of living in Charlotte.

As for NASCAR, yes it's the home, but truthfully, I have been a bit underwhelmed by the fan support in the immediate Charlotte area. Again, I have as many NASCAR dedicated friends in the Cincy area as I do in Charlotte. Just because something is from somewhere doesn't make it obsessed with it....you should know that by turning on a Reds game and seeing 20,000 empty seats every game.

At the end of the day, the impact is blown out of proportion on both sides. It's only if this is the beginning of a trend for either city as to whether or not it will truly make a difference in the long run.
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Old 11-30-2011, 08:51 PM
 
2,485 posts, read 2,136,487 times
Reputation: 1321
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
I've never liked Charlotte, personally. I don't like much of the Sunbelt because it's so often hyped for things that are no longer true (cost of living, etc), and because I tend to see Northern cities as more dense, older with more history and culture, and overall just feeling more like total urban centers than the sprawl centers of the South and West.

This is not a referendum on Cincinnati or Ohio's leaders, per se. It's just the new business dynamic these days. Companies want to milk regional and state resources as much as possible and if they don't get what they want, they move to a place that will. It's basically corporate extortion, and it's highly unlikely that Charlotte will be the final location for Chiquita.
This post is exactly right on all accounts.

I also don't like Southern cities, as they tend to be far too generic and suburban for me.
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Old 11-30-2011, 08:55 PM
 
2,485 posts, read 2,136,487 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jstn View Post
The "N-word" is used in every other rap song, that doesn't mean it's not a racial slur. Your argument is weak.

Your credibility in judging Charlotte is also clearly not established. Charlotte is anything but redneck. Honestly, I see more Confederate flags flying high in Hamilton and Butler Counties each time I come home than I have in more than a decade of living in Charlotte.

As for NASCAR, yes it's the home, but truthfully, I have been a bit underwhelmed by the fan support in the immediate Charlotte area. Again, I have as many NASCAR dedicated friends in the Cincy area as I do in Charlotte. Just because something is from somewhere doesn't make it obsessed with it....you should know that by turning on a Reds game and seeing 20,000 empty seats every game.

At the end of the day, the impact is blown out of proportion on both sides. It's only if this is the beginning of a trend for either city as to whether or not it will truly make a difference in the long run.
I really hope you aren't drawing parallels to the despicable N-word and the subculture that glorifies it to the word "redneck" and the culture that embraces that title. Honestly, if you can't tell the difference, let's just drop it.
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Old 11-30-2011, 09:04 PM
 
4,897 posts, read 5,588,340 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
Cincy has more in common with NYC than Charlotte as far as density (almost 2x denser than Charlotte)
Are we talking building density or people density? I'll give you building density. However, a city of 297,000 with 78 sq/miles of land is roughly 3,800 people per sq/mile. The 78 sq/mile core of Charlotte has roughly 3,600 people per sq/mile.

Cincy looks more urban due to the fact that it was the 10th largest city in the Nation at one point (and was building a subway line at one point too). Today however, Cincy is much smaller; so small that the people density of Cincy vs cities like Charlotte are fairly close. Remember, density drops as one moves out from the core (this is true for all cities). Charlotte has 297 sq/miles of land with roughly 740,000 people. Hamilton county Ohio has 800,000 people with roughly 407 sq/miles of land. With numbers like these, how many people would Cincy gain if it expanded its borders by 220 sq/miles? And don't think that crossing the river into KY would help; none of those counties have a density greater than 1,000 people per sq/mile.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
As far as a train goes... well, I'd much rather have dense neighborhoods where people live.
I agree. And on that, Cincy's people density is almost the same as Charlotte's. I expained why above already.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
Cincinnati will get a streetcar, so it's a start. This just goes back to my point about how some cities have certain things others don't, but overall, I just find Northern cities to feel more like real urban centers. That's what happens when a city like Cincinnati matures 100+ years before a city like Charlotte.
The problem is that the so called "real urban centers" are the likes of Chicago, San Fran, DC, Philly, NYC, Boston etc. You know, the ones that actually retained most of their pre-1970s population; the ones that actually still are 3-4 times more dense than Charlotte.
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Old 11-30-2011, 09:08 PM
 
414 posts, read 874,023 times
Reputation: 279
Quote:
Originally Posted by abr7rmj View Post
I really hope you aren't drawing parallels to the despicable N-word and the subculture that glorifies it to the word "redneck" and the culture that embraces that title. Honestly, if you can't tell the difference, let's just drop it.
Nope, just pointing out how ridiculous your argument was. As is with most of what you have posted in this thread. Your anger and hostility should be at Cincy and Chiquita (if there even should be any) not Charlotte.

It's not as if Charlotte came in and stole your wife. They simply took her after she told you she wanted to leave and you put up little resistance and allowed her to go.

So, you lost a corrupt company with an ugly track record, that really only has a few hundred jobs (probably most employees will just relocate with them anyways) and an inflated average salary (the CEO's 5.6 million was figured in here). Big deal. It's no reason to bash a wonderful progressive city that many, many, many Ohioans have chosen to call home. Just seems a bit immature.
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Old 11-30-2011, 10:00 PM
 
2,485 posts, read 2,136,487 times
Reputation: 1321
Quote:
Originally Posted by jstn View Post
Nope, just pointing out how ridiculous your argument was. As is with most of what you have posted in this thread. Your anger and hostility should be at Cincy and Chiquita (if there even should be any) not Charlotte.

It's not as if Charlotte came in and stole your wife. They simply took her after she told you she wanted to leave and you put up little resistance and allowed her to go.

So, you lost a corrupt company with an ugly track record, that really only has a few hundred jobs (probably most employees will just relocate with them anyways) and an inflated average salary (the CEO's 5.6 million was figured in here). Big deal. It's no reason to bash a wonderful progressive city that many, many, many Ohioans have chosen to call home. Just seems a bit immature.
Why are you so bothered that I don't care for Charlotte? Newsflash: There are people besides me who don't like your city or any city. Deal with it.

With that, I'm checking out of this thread. Peace.

Last edited by abr7rmj; 11-30-2011 at 10:15 PM..
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Old 11-30-2011, 11:46 PM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
7,795 posts, read 5,081,055 times
Reputation: 2656
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbancharlotte View Post
Are we talking building density or people density? I'll give you building density. However, a city of 297,000 with 78 sq/miles of land is roughly 3,800 people per sq/mile. The 78 sq/mile core of Charlotte has roughly 3,600 people per sq/mile.

You don't actually get to selectively limit size just to get the density that you want. Charlotte is over 290 square miles, not 78. There are even larger cities in areal size than Charlotte that have a higher density. It's not really about size, it's just that some cities have a much lower density overall. Charlotte is one of them. Just the facts.

Remember, density drops as one moves out from the core (this is true for all cities). Charlotte has 297 sq/miles of land with roughly 740,000 people. Hamilton county Ohio has 800,000 people with roughly 407 sq/miles of land. With numbers like these, how many people would Cincy gain if it expanded its borders by 220 sq/miles? And don't think that crossing the river into KY would help; none of those counties have a density greater than 1,000 people per sq/mile.

Exactly my point. Charlotte IS 297 square miles. You want to make a comparison using variables that don't exist.

I agree. And on that, Cincy's people density is almost the same as Charlotte's. I expained why above already.
The problem is that the so called "real urban centers" are the likes of Chicago, San Fran, DC, Philly, NYC, Boston etc. You know, the ones that actually retained most of their pre-1970s population; the ones that actually still are 3-4 times more dense than Charlotte.
Chicago has lost population 5 out of the last 6 decades and is below it's peak population. SF shrank 3 out of the last 6 and only surpassed it's peak population in 2010. DC shrank 5 out of the last 6 and is well below it's peak population. Ditto for Philly. Boston shrank 3 out of the last 6 and is well below it's peak. NYC is an exception even though it shrank 2 out of 6. It is at it's peak population now.

So yeah, not accurate. In any case, this is turning into a different discussion, so this will be my last post on this stuff.
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Old 12-01-2011, 12:10 AM
 
4,897 posts, read 5,588,340 times
Reputation: 3056
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
Again, this is a weak argument. A bilingual workforce is readily available here in Ohio and regionally.
Hamilton county Ohio
total population---------802,374
% hispanic----------------2.6%
total hispanic population--20,862
Hamilton County QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau

Mecklenburg county NC
total population---------919,628
% hispanic---------------12.2%
total hispanic population-112,195
Mecklenburg County QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau
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