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Old 12-01-2011, 05:56 AM
 
27,750 posts, read 24,763,128 times
Reputation: 16469

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
Cincy has more in common with NYC than Charlotte as far as density (almost 2x denser than Charlotte), archtecture, culture, etc, but if you are trying to find cities comparable to the density of NYC, there aren't any in the US. NYC has a density over 27,000 ppsm, far above every other major city in the country. In other words, NYC is in a league of it's own. As far as a train goes... well, I'd much rather have dense neighborhoods where people live. Cincinnati will get a streetcar, so it's a start. This just goes back to my point about how some cities have certain things others don't, but overall, I just find Northern cities to feel more like real urban centers. That's what happens when a city like Cincinnati matures 100+ years before a city like Charlotte.
Your points are somewhat interesting seeing as though you live in Columbus which is often derided for the same things you're criticizing Charlotte for (at least in a Midwestern context). However, the exciting thing about Charlotte is that by living there, you get to witness its evolution into a maturing urban center right before your very eyes. The city isn't resting on its laurels and relishing in days gone by when it had a much larger stature than it does right now; it's making the transition here and now and it's great to be a part of that. It's a source of great energy, pride, and dynamism and encourages the city to do even bigger things.

Most people who are moving to Charlotte (and the Sunbelt in general) aren't urban purists; they want places that do the basics--good jobs, safe neighborhoods, good schools, reasonable cost of living--well. And outside of the nation's largest urban centers, very few people are flocking to mid-tier older cities like Cincinnati for their urban areas. But the great thing about the growth in Charlotte is that a significant by-product of that growth is a maturation of its urban fabric and significant infrastructure improvements that improve the already great quality of life there. Charlotte's got a very good thing going on right now.
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Old 12-01-2011, 06:33 AM
 
6,249 posts, read 9,654,712 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
Most people who are moving to Charlotte (and the Sunbelt in general) aren't urban purists; they want places that do the basics--good jobs, safe neighborhoods, good schools, reasonable cost of living--well. And outside of the nation's largest urban centers, very few people are flocking to mid-tier older cities like Cincinnati for their urban areas. But the great thing about the growth in Charlotte is that a significant by-product of that growth is a maturation of its urban fabric and significant infrastructure improvements that improve the already great quality of life there. Charlotte's got a very good thing going on right now.
Very true; however consider these few facts:

1) Some folks on this thread feels that Atlanta is "lacking" (while ignoring the fact that Atl has subways and non-downtown skylines larger than the main skylines of many mid-tier midwestern cities)
2) Quite a few of these folks have never been to Charlotte. If they have, it hasn't been within the last 5-10 years. You and I both know how much progress has been made in only 5 years (let alone 10).
3) The south is hated in general by some of the midwestern homers. Nothing (not even a southern city with 10,000 people per sq/mile density) will change that.

^^^These facts above only makes news like Chiquita even worse. It's not about a great company leaving Cincy (because we all know that Chiquita is far from being "great"). Oh no, it is about a corporate citizen of Cincy (a great "real" city) leaving for Charlotte, North Carolina (a sub-par wanna-be town down south that can't hold a candle to the likes of the MIGHTY Cincy). Makes one wonder what New Yorkers thought when this same company left for Cincinnati. Talk about a REAL step-down huh?

I wonder if THIS was the attitude of the local officials in Cincy when they were negotiating to keep this company? I have a feeling that Cincy ONLY offered $6 million because of Miami; not because of Charlotte, North Carolina. The worst thing one can do in any competition is under-estimate the opposition (especially when the opposition is in your same weight class).
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Old 12-01-2011, 06:46 AM
 
Location: In a happy place
3,707 posts, read 6,566,581 times
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There was no reason for Cincinnati to offer as much in incentives to keep Chiquita. After all, it shouldn't be as expensive to keep a company in a location where they already have their offices, company infrastructure, etc. as it does to pack it all up, move it, and set it all up again.
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Old 12-01-2011, 07:00 AM
 
27,750 posts, read 24,763,128 times
Reputation: 16469
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbancharlotte View Post
Very true; however consider these few facts:

1) Some folks on this thread feels that Atlanta is "lacking" (while ignoring the fact that Atl has subways and non-downtown skylines larger than the main skylines of many mid-tier midwestern cities)
2) Quite a few of these folks have never been to Charlotte. If they have, it hasn't been within the last 5-10 years. You and I both know how much progress has been made in only 5 years (let alone 10).
3) The south is hated in general by some of the midwestern homers. Nothing (not even a southern city with 10,000 people per sq/mile density) will change that.

^^^These facts above only makes news like Chiquita even worse. It's not about a great company leaving Cincy (because we all know that Chiquita is far from being "great"). Oh no, it is about a corporate citizen of Cincy (a great "real" city) leaving for Charlotte, North Carolina (a sub-par wanna-be town down south that can't hold a candle to the likes of the MIGHTY Cincy). Makes one wonder what New Yorkers thought when this same company left for Cincinnati. Talk about a REAL step-down huh?

I wonder if THIS was the attitude of the local officials in Cincy when they were negotiating to keep this company? I have a feeling that Cincy ONLY offered $6 million because of Miami; not because of Charlotte, North Carolina. The worst thing one can do in any competition is under-estimate the opposition (especially when the opposition is in your same weight class).
Excellent points as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rrtechno View Post
There was no reason for Cincinnati to offer as much in incentives to keep Chiquita. After all, it shouldn't be as expensive to keep a company in a location where they already have their offices, company infrastructure, etc. as it does to pack it all up, move it, and set it all up again.
You have a point. $5 million alone was offered to Chiquita to help offset moving costs to Charlotte.
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Old 12-01-2011, 07:06 AM
 
6,249 posts, read 9,654,712 times
Reputation: 4661
Quote:
Originally Posted by rrtechno View Post
There was no reason for Cincinnati to offer as much in incentives to keep Chiquita. After all, it shouldn't be as expensive to keep a company in a location where they already have their offices, company infrastructure, etc. as it does to pack it all up, move it, and set it all up again.
True, but Cincy didn't even have to offer anything.

He said the deal hinged on whether the city, Mecklenburg County and the state would OK paying $5 million to $6 million in short-term cash. That money would be used to defray the company's cost of packing up, estimated at $27 million
Chiquita deal includes $5 million for moving expenses | CharlotteObserver.com & The Charlotte Observer Newspaper

^^^Charlotte (and North Carolina) paid roughly $25 million (total amount of the entire deal); yet Chiquita's cost to move is estimated at $27 million? And Cincy offered them $6 million to stay put? Either Chiquita lied about their actual moving expense, or they just wanted out of Cincy THAT badly.
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Old 12-02-2011, 12:59 PM
 
Location: livin' the good life
2,117 posts, read 3,537,630 times
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Kind of a funny cartoon...

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Old 12-04-2011, 10:31 AM
 
Location: Cleveland Suburbs
2,554 posts, read 5,836,275 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZnGuy View Post
Kind of a funny cartoon...
LOL good one.

I don't think many people really cared Chiquita left. It's not a fortune 500 company, has suffered immensely as of late, and Cincinnati is gaining more important aspects this year and next. Didn't Cincy's mayor laugh at Chiquita pretending to act as if he didn't even notice? Yes, it is never good to lose a brand name, but Cincinnati has its name on enough brands as it is... thanks Procter! Maybe Macy's rings a bell? Kroger is the nation's largest grocery chain. Really? Cincinnati will be just fine without Chiquita, and like I said, is gaining Omnicare which is a fortune 500 company, and Nielsen is bringing in more jobs than Chiquita had and they are even going into the Chiquita Center.
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Old 12-04-2011, 10:40 AM
 
Location: Cleveland Suburbs
2,554 posts, read 5,836,275 times
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And for some of the Charlotte posters, let's not turn this into a city vs city discussion. I think you are seriously downplaying Cincinnati. Cincinnati has a built environment that Charlotte and every other southern city outside of New Orleans could only dream of. A nicely built and dense downtown, neighborhoods like Clifton, Mount Auburn, Mount Adams, OTR, etc. It's not like Cincinnati is saying goodbye to anything anytime soon. It has an unemployment rate below the national average, billions being spent in the city, rail is coming (really excited about Charlotte's LYNX system), top 10 cities for fortune 500 based companies, great college institutions, and a great history.

Don't get me wrong, Charlotte is my favorite city in the south and I am really rooting for it to prove itself as a international destination, I like it even better than Atlanta. But the downplaying of Cincinnati in this thread of Charlotte posters seems unwarranted.

Chiquita is a dying brand. They need an airport more than anything else. The need for bilingual speakers would have been met in Miami. Cincinnati has the corporate base, there were no other issues in Cincinnati than there are in Charlotte outside of the airport, and that is Kentucky's incompetency. I really never understood why there wasn't an airport built between Cincinnati and Dayton where 95% of the traffic is crossing the river anyway. I think it is good for Charlotte to gain this, they have really suffered the past few years... the banks have not been very nice to Charlotte and I have seen it in the numbers coming out of Charlotte's economy. I will agree with Kasich on this, I am glad he didn't offer some huge money deal to keep Chiquita here... it just wasn't worth it.
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Old 12-04-2011, 01:54 PM
 
4,237 posts, read 3,289,058 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
I don't think most people see it as a real possibility that they're moving here, anyway. That said, if they do, the benefits packages they've been offered are small in comparison to the investment and jobs they'd bring, so it would be a benefit to the state. As for the company's future, Illinois seems to not have a problem believing they have one.
Not so sure about Illinois believing Sears is worth it; the state turned down tax incentives for the company to stay. Sears will move unless Illinois steps-up. Columbus is a better fit than Austin for its needs however, the overall tax friendliness of Texas could trump Ohio. Either way, Sears will be gone in the near term and its holdings-divisions sold-off.
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Old 12-04-2011, 09:53 PM
 
Location: Green Township
329 posts, read 564,234 times
Reputation: 139
Cincinnati will feel exactly the same without Chiquita...

If something like Kroger or GE were to leave, this place would feel A LOT different for sure.
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