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Old 09-13-2011, 09:35 PM
 
Location: Mason, OH
9,259 posts, read 13,408,144 times
Reputation: 1920

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Quote:
Originally Posted by t45209 View Post
This an unfair remark. Kasich can't control what Delta and the CVG airport authority has done to the region. If the air travel situation does not improve, you could see a lot more international corporations pull out of the region. Who are you going to blame when Toyota pulls the plug?

My own company is asking questions. Productivity is down because so many of our Cincinnati based employees who must travel by air are having to extend business trips by by one or two days just because the flight options are so bad.
So what is it you are specifically complaining about? The fact that Delta and just about every other airline realizes the day of the hub is over? Yes CVG was a hub, and it has shrunk considerably. But when it was a major hub everyone complained the fares were exhorbitant. If that is still the case then go to Indy, Dayton, Columbus to get reasonable fares.

Again, are you saying international corporations will pull out of the area because of the lack of direct flights to international designations? I personally think their decisions to locate here goes beyond just convenience of air travel. A lot of it involves their recognition of the work ethic our local people exhibit. That has not changed.

If your employees feel travel out of CVG is so bad, then book flights out of Indy, Dayton, or Columbus. Of course trhat would mean getting up earlier and driving to one of those airports, which just might be outside of their work description.
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Old 09-13-2011, 10:34 PM
 
1,130 posts, read 2,030,838 times
Reputation: 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjbrill View Post
So what is it you are specifically complaining about? The fact that Delta and just about every other airline realizes the day of the hub is over? Yes CVG was a hub, and it has shrunk considerably. But when it was a major hub everyone complained the fares were exhorbitant. If that is still the case then go to Indy, Dayton, Columbus to get reasonable fares.

Again, are you saying international corporations will pull out of the area because of the lack of direct flights to international designations? I personally think their decisions to locate here goes beyond just convenience of air travel. A lot of it involves their recognition of the work ethic our local people exhibit. That has not changed.

If your employees feel travel out of CVG is so bad, then book flights out of Indy, Dayton, or Columbus. Of course trhat would mean getting up earlier and driving to one of those airports, which just might be outside of their work description.
I'm saying that the airport has been mismanaged and has contributed significantly to an unfriendly business environment. This has been pretty much well-documented in the press.

I'm afraid your opinion is not shared by the vast majority of the business community. I mean, I guess it's ok that you think that everyone is a bunch of wimps, and it's a shame we can't man up and leave our houses four hours before a flight is due to leave(you are aware of the impact that 9/11 had on airports and air travel, right?). We do have people who fly out of Dayton, and occasionally other airports in the region, but only in extreme situations (or if you live in West Chester), because it's most often counterproductive.

What you have written here is extremely naive. Busy executives are not going to spend an additional two hours commuting to an airport on a regular basis. It's simply not going to happen. You'll note that I mentioned productivity is at stake when you are having to leave an extra day in advance of meetings and arriving a day later. Any undergrad business major knows that loss of productivity, even for rank and file employees, is going to cost money, not to mention extra hotel stays and more. You multiply that by the number of people that P&G is trying to launch from the region and that adds up to big bucks, and you better bet that a firm like that is going to crunch numbers and figure out that it is more cost effective to put people someplace else.

Besides, Louisville or Columbus don't always have better flight itineraries, so what's the point?

Furthermore, a few posts up you were bemoaning the fact that someone pointed out that Ohio taxes discourage business activity. Now you disclaim that the airport should have anything to do with it. Do you know anything about business? I've got news for you, a major corporation isn't going relocate to southwestern Ohio just because you keep your lawn cut and it's a friendly neighborhood. They locate here because of dollars and cents, pure and simple.
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Old 09-13-2011, 11:13 PM
 
2,492 posts, read 3,664,039 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjbrill View Post
Why is it always the tax structure to be blamed, other than by those against any taxes? Ohio offers a quality of life for employees second to none in the nation. Relatively low cost of living, especially when compared to the coasts. This has to rank high on the ability of companies to recruit top level personnel to work here. People moving here from the coasts can double the house they can afford.

I am getting pretty tired of hearing how Ohio is anti-business. Businesses need top-quality people to make them successful, and Ohio has some of the best incentives going to attract such families.

Note I said families. Let the twenty-somethings go elsewhere to seek their fortrunes and then realize they are suddenly 30, or the dreaded 40, with nothing to sustain them.

We live in one of the most desirable locations in the country. If a few companies move to areas with lower corporate taxes, which feathers the nest of the top executives, so be it. By the time NCR moved they were no longer the business force which drove Dayton, but just a shell. Chiquita may be the same for Cincinnati, a global name but just a blip in the local employment scheme.

My comment is don't let your tail hit you in the a** on the way out of town.
I agree with you here, kjbrill, although I would say that the loss of NCR certainly stung Dayton hard. It robbed the city of a Fortune 500 company, hundreds of high-paying jobs, and a legacy presence.

As much as Atlanta (and NCR's New York-based CEO who had no use for Dayton) infuriated a lot of people, it was the Alabama attempt at elite-level Air Force research jobs that really chapped people in Dayton and Ohio. Thankfully Alabama failed.
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Old 09-14-2011, 12:49 AM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
12,796 posts, read 12,804,028 times
Reputation: 5467
Honestly, Ohioans should really be blaming the people who keep moving to the South believing the myths that it is less expensive with a better quality of life. And we should be blaming our cities for stupidly investing too much into single industries and then failing to diversify when change came. This is not so much about Cincy specifically, but the state overall. There is now this general feeling like Northern states don't have as much to offer, and there is also that Rust Belt stereotype that seems to apply to all Northern areas. Companies go where the people go, which in turn brings in more people. Ohio needs to do more to keep and attract people.
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Old 09-14-2011, 01:08 AM
 
2,492 posts, read 3,664,039 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
Honestly, Ohioans should really be blaming the people who keep moving to the South believing the myths that it is less expensive with a better quality of life. And we should be blaming our cities for stupidly investing too much into single industries and then failing to diversify when change came. This is not so much about Cincy specifically, but the state overall. There is now this general feeling like Northern states don't have as much to offer, and there is also that Rust Belt stereotype that seems to apply to all Northern areas. Companies go where the people go, which in turn brings in more people. Ohio needs to do more to keep and attract people.
And when Ohio cities do attract new companies, it's usually overwhelmingly another Ohio company that's just moving down the road. That does absolutely no good. A lot of the company movement around here are companies moving from the City of Cincinnati to the northern suburbs, or vice versa. That's a net zero for the region and the state. It's time to start setting sights on companies outside of Ohio (and no, not Kentucky). Bring a firm from the deep South up here.

Look at Texas, for example. That state is suffering from a historic drought that is wreaking havoc on the landscape, the people and the businesses there. And some projections are saying that this drought may not be measured in months or years, but decades and even centuries. Maybe there are some companies who may be looking our direction for a more stable future. As healthy as Texas is today, it won't stay that way if the drought lingers. Put out some feelers and/or recruiters. Other states are doing it to us.
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Old 09-14-2011, 06:19 AM
 
2,886 posts, read 3,965,971 times
Reputation: 1499
Into this supremely complex issue, I'll add the comment that having had the opportunity over time to observe the workings of state government in Kentucky and Ohio, I think Kentucky's much smaller size contributes to it being more nimble, if that's the word, in attracting business. There's simply a much smaller bureaucracy there to manage, and a smaller one for potential businesses to navigate. Other factors are more important, obviously, but I think this is one that often gets overlooked.
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Old 09-14-2011, 06:59 AM
 
6,249 posts, read 9,691,453 times
Reputation: 4661
After doing a little reading on Cincy vs the Charlotte area vs South Florida, I can see (somewhat) why Chiquita is looking at Charlotte and Miami. Chiquita has made it public that the airport and lack of bilingual (potential) employees are the two main issues. Obviously, Miami would fix both.

What surprised me in my research is that Charlotte has a much larger Hispanic community than Cincy. Chiquita has not specified that "bilingual" meant Spanish/English, but we can assume it does because of Chiquita's large presence in South and Central America as well as the west coast USA. Charlotte also has the busiest airport of the three cities.

That said, Miami would be #1 when it comes to bilingual employees to choose from. Charlotte would be #1 when it comes to the airport. In either case, Chiquita would take care of both issues (airport and bilingual employees) with a move of virtually any city down south. Ohio's ethinic diversity (or lack thereof) was a total shock to me!!! I had no clue that there was THAT much of a difference between Ohio and North Carolina when it comes to race. Like I said, I can see now why Chiquita is talking about a move. The airport issue can be fixed almost overnight; but the ethnic diversity is something that can't be fixed so quickly.
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Old 09-14-2011, 08:56 AM
 
Location: Philaburbia
31,295 posts, read 57,533,772 times
Reputation: 52197
The airport argument I can buy, but not the lack of bilingual employees argument. If Chiquita can't find bilingual employees, it's not looking very hard.
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Old 09-14-2011, 09:00 AM
 
Location: Mason, OH
9,259 posts, read 13,408,144 times
Reputation: 1920
I began flying out of CVG in the early 60s when only the original and 2nd terminal existed. It was small enough you could arrive 15 minutes before departure and have no problem getting on your flight. Sigh, those were the days. None of the international terrorist fears, no checkpoints, no searches, you just ran through the door and through the terminal to your gate. If you were especially late you just requested they check your bags at the gate, which they would do. Pardon me if I remember the days when air travel was fun, and why my most recent flights from Melbourne Florida to Lawton Oklahoma and back on Delta are likely my last. Good thing I still had enough frequent flyer (no expiration) miles to pay for the trip or I would have really been aqitated.

Then came the great expansion era of Delta in the late 70s and early 80s to create a hub. Upstart Comair grew to one of the largest regional airlines in the country to feed this hub and practically individually created the CRJ (Canadian Regional Jet) via their business relationship with Bombardier in Canada by buying the first and largest volume of their product. I had a small hand in that since my company sold a ton of machinery to Bombardier and their suppliers to make parts for the jets. Spent many a flight from Cincy to either Bombardier or their major suppliers. Unfortunately they were/are some of the most uncomfortable aircraft I have ever been on.

The CVG airport management, board, or whatever runs it may be faulted for favoring growth with Delta over a diversified existence. But the airport is itself a big business so it is not surprising the decisions which were made, the good ole boys syndrome.

A question - considering the economic impact of the airport on the community, why are the board members not a voted position? It is called a volunteer board, but who OK's actual membership on the board? Still sounds like a good ole boys club to me.
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Old 09-14-2011, 09:20 AM
 
2,886 posts, read 3,965,971 times
Reputation: 1499
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81 View Post
The airport argument I can buy, but not the lack of bilingual employees argument. If Chiquita can't find bilingual employees, it's not looking very hard.
Spanish-speaking people come in all levels of educational and skill brackets, just like everyone else. Does Cincinnati have as large a demographic group of the specific kind of bilingual employees Chiquita wants to draw hires from as some of the other options? Not trying to make any kind of statement here, just don't know.
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