Well, that didn't take long! (Cleveland, Kent: purchase, construction, live)

[Cleveland_Collector]

Originally Posted by ram2

How many people pulled their car out today in a bar and threatened to kill someone while fueled by the false bravado and perception of boundless arms freedom insinuated by a new legal statute?


How many drivers engaged in road rage today fueled by bravado and nearly caused an accident or killed somebody?

Road rage is illegal, punishable, and therefore not encouraged by a legal statute. Carrying a deadly WEAPON into a liquor establishment is now apparently encouraged by the law set forth. And, the last time I checked, the intended use of a car is for transportation. I'm also pretty sure most cars don't fire lethal projectiles. A car is also woefully inefficient as a weapon (especially, when you attempt to conceal it). A gun is one of the most efficient conventional weapons on the planet. Their sole purpose is to kill and to do it with efficiency. Promoting their possession by the general public in areas where liquor is consumed under any circumstance besides legal security is both foolish and irresponsible.

[wolden]

I didn't really post this to reignite the debate about concealed carry. What interested me more was how no one can change their opinions anymore under apparently any circumstance. Instead of being considered open minded and willing to re-examine conclusions and ideas, it is now just called "flip flopping".

I am curious if any event would change anyone's mind about guns in bars. I don't think it would. Just as the almost daily reports of massacres (lie the hair salon in CA) change no one's views. Everyone just ignores them and is used to them.
I think the only time these sorts of things can change people's minds , is when it actually happens to them. For example, there used to be a saying, "a conservative is a former liberal who was robbed at gunpoint" or something like that.

On the flip side, I remember reading a very striking story about a world famous hunter who traveled the world shooting big game. He got in a life threatening traumatic accident ( I think it was a car crash). He said that at some point in extreme pain he realized that animals that he shot with his high powered rifle must feel similar pain. It caused him to stop hunting. I would provide a link to this but it was several years ago.

[ram2]

Originally Posted by Cleveland_Collector

Road rage is illegal, punishable, and therefore not encouraged by a legal statute. Carrying a deadly WEAPON into a liquor establishment is now apparently encouraged by the law set forth. And, the last time I checked, the intended use of a car is for transportation. I'm also pretty sure most cars don't fire lethal projectiles. A car is also woefully inefficient as a weapon (especially, when you attempt to conceal it). A gun is one of the most efficient conventional weapons on the planet. Their sole purpose is to kill and to do it with efficiency. Promoting their possession by the general public in areas where liquor is consumed under any circumstance besides legal security is both foolish and irresponsible.

Drive a car into a crowd of people at 60mph and tell me what happens.

[Wilson513]

I suppose its like Obama's "jobs saved or created." One cannot really know how many criminals have refrained from pulling out their POS illegal gun in a crowd that they might reasonably suspect included numerous armed citizens who are only a second or two away from sending them to the morgue in a bag. I'm sure that most of the actual bad guys know that they are more at risk from a well armed and well trained person with CC than they are from a police officer. Clearly, a police officer will give a "man with a gun" a warning and a chance to drop his weapon. Whereas, he will certainly get shot without warning by a CC civilian.

So how many of these crimes are deterred by CC no one really knows. I tend to think it is a lot.

[kjbrill]

Well how about the shootout this morning between 2 bands outside a bar at Vine and Locust. Anyone find something peculiar about this? I mean 2 bands? Apparently both non and CC guns were involved. Reports are rather sketchy, but may not get a lot clearer.

[progmac]

Originally Posted by kjbrill

Well how about the shootout this morning between 2 bands outside a bar at Vine and Locust. Anyone find something peculiar about this? I mean 2 bands? Apparently both non and CC guns were involved. Reports are rather sketchy, but may not get a lot clearer.

a real battle of the bands

[Natural510]

I'd like to see instances of a CC weapon stopping a crime in action. And the "prohibitive" argument isn't a valid reply, as crime still happens everyday in Ohio.

[Sarah Perry]

Originally Posted by progmac

a real battle of the bands

haha. Can't give you more Rep, but thanks for the chuckle.

[Wilson513]

Originally Posted by Natural510

I'd like to see instances of a CC weapon stopping a crime in action. And the "prohibitive" argument isn't a valid reply, as crime still happens everyday in Ohio.

There are thousands.

Philadelphia Student Carrying Legal Firearm Shoots It Out With Armed Robber | TheBlaze.com

[insightofitall]

Originally Posted by ram2

How many people were killed in car accidents today?

How many people were killed in bars by firearms today?

Sorry, ram, I've never bought the logic behind that type of argument. You're comparing apples to oranges. A car is designed to be a valid means of transportation - whereas a gun, by virtue of its design, has a single specific purpose to inflict harm when used. There's simply no other use for which a gun is designed. Yes, a car CAN be used as a weapon, but that's not what it is designed to do. Just because there are more deaths caused by car accidents on any given day is not a valid reason to consider a gun to somehow be safer simply because statistics indicate that fewer people are killed by firearms in bars on that same day.

EDIT: I didn't see Cleveland_Collector's response until after I wrote this, so apparently we're on the same page.