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Old 05-25-2012, 06:10 PM
 
Location: Mason, OH
8,705 posts, read 6,811,639 times
Reputation: 1707

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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolden View Post
KJ,
I can't agree with you on schools. I live in Terrace Park and have no kids but pay around 15,000 a year in RE taxes. Most of this apparently goes to the schools. However, I don't complain about this, because having an excellent Mariemont School district greatly enhances the value of my home. It makes the neighborhood exceptional. This maintains my real estate investment.

Now, if you are really implying skilled High School teachers should be paid minimum wage, you have me scratching my head. Surely you know that excellent High School level teachers should be paid much more than unskilled cafeteria workers.

You get what you pay for. The quality of minimum wage paid workers is very low.

BTW of course you were right on Medicare but again I don't know if you can fight the ignorance. How can you expect people to understand the financial concept of future value when they can't even understand how to calculate how an ARM reset will affect their monthly mortgage payment?
How can you imply I stated high school teachers should be paid minimum wage? Do they only teach one student at a time? The hourly cost per student exceeds the minimum wage. What is a reasonable class size - 20. So with 20 times the incoming over the minimum wage, I do believe they are squandering a lot of money.
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Old 05-26-2012, 02:40 PM
 
406 posts, read 470,358 times
Reputation: 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjbrill View Post
How can you imply I stated high school teachers should be paid minimum wage? Do they only teach one student at a time? The hourly cost per student exceeds the minimum wage. What is a reasonable class size - 20. So with 20 times the incoming over the minimum wage, I do believe they are squandering a lot of money.
KJ,
That is pure back of the envelope speculation. Show me a proper audit detailing the expenses. Then show me how you can cut the costs. I am sure we can almost always cut some costs, but wether they would make much of a difference in your taxes is another issue.

Also you ignored my point about your real estate values. If you want your investment in your home to decline, one quick way is to have your schools decline.

All my life I have heard elderly complaining about paying for the schools once they have no more kids in the schools. I just don't buy the argument. I paid something like 75,000 in taxes for 2011 across all the entities. If everyone insisted on only paying taxes for something that directly benefitted them , not only would it be chaos, but likely as much as one tax went down another one would have to go up.
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Old 05-26-2012, 05:13 PM
 
Location: Mason, OH
8,705 posts, read 6,811,639 times
Reputation: 1707
Wolden... Another quick way for home values to decline is to have the real estate market tank. Between 2008 and 2011 the fair market appraisal value of my home went down 12%, but the taxes only decreased 7%. So all the great schools in the world did not help it, except keep the taxes up.

I don't disagree that good schools help maintain property values, but I believe it is overrated. New property will demand a price based on the school district, but older property less so unless it is very distinguished. Maybe in a Wyoming or a Terrace Park, but not elsewhere. The property condition is the biggest factor.

My dad originally built our house in Madeira in 1948 for $8,500. He intentionally left the 2nd floor unfinished which he completed in 1952 for about another $3,000, or a total investment in the house of $11,500 plus the $1,200 he had paid for the lot. A simple 6 room, 1-1/2 story cape cod, 1 bath, and single car underneath garage, on a 50'x150' lot, about 1,380 sq ft. I looked it up the other day, and some idiot paid $185,000 for it in 2008. The current tax valuation has been dropped to $155,000 and the taxes to $1,824. I cannot believe someone paid that much for the house, Madeira schools or not.

I am just saying I believe at age 70 or even 75, there should be a point at which the elderly should be absolved of school taxes on their property tax. This idea that everyone should be capable of paying all of the taxes for their entire lives is just not realistic. When I was working I had no problem. Now that I am not working I can see where the problem comes in.

You may call it a one tax vs another situation, but I believe when you hit my age your song will change.
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Old 05-26-2012, 10:35 PM
 
406 posts, read 470,358 times
Reputation: 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjbrill View Post

I am just saying I believe at age 70 or even 75, there should be a point at which the elderly should be absolved of school taxes on their property tax. This idea that everyone should be capable of paying all of the taxes for their entire lives is just not realistic. When I was working I had no problem. Now that I am not working I can see where the problem comes in.

You may call it a one tax vs another situation, but I believe when you hit my age your song will change.
KJ,
Actually this last point I agree with. At a certain point, people no longer have an income, their taxes should drop proportional to their income. Because otherwise they don't have enough money. This is going to be a bigger and bigger problem for society. Something like 50% of people age 55 have minimal savings for retirement. This is a huge demographic disaster.

Wall street convinced the companies they would be more profitable if they got rid of pensions. This had the side effect of giving Wall Street candy from babies-- robbing the retirement accounts of millions of people to pad their multimillion dollar lifestyles. What a coincidence.

As it stands now, if you can't pay your property taxes, I imagine you could lose your house. Social security isnt enough. Its a big problem that isn't going to get better. I hope I'm prepared.
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Old 05-27-2012, 02:59 AM
 
421 posts, read 272,788 times
Reputation: 257
Give me a break. So...what if a 75 year-old has adult children or school-aged grandkids living in their home, should they still be excused from paying the school property tax? Seriously, this suggestion gets more insane with every second spent dwelling on it.

And as has been mentioned, the medical bills of many if not most old people exceeds the expense of educating a child K-12. Just this year my grandparents who are still alive have had about $75,000 in medical bills, most of that covered paid by Medicare.

So, in Kjbrill's dream world, retirees should only be eligible for treatments that had been developed before their age 65. That way they would tend to die sooner and cost the whole system a lot less money.
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Old 05-27-2012, 07:33 AM
 
Location: Mason, OH
8,705 posts, read 6,811,639 times
Reputation: 1707
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolden View Post
KJ,
Actually this last point I agree with. At a certain point, people no longer have an income, their taxes should drop proportional to their income. Because otherwise they don't have enough money. This is going to be a bigger and bigger problem for society. Something like 50% of people age 55 have minimal savings for retirement. This is a huge demographic disaster.

Wall street convinced the companies they would be more profitable if they got rid of pensions. This had the side effect of giving Wall Street candy from babies-- robbing the retirement accounts of millions of people to pad their multimillion dollar lifestyles. What a coincidence.

As it stands now, if you can't pay your property taxes, I imagine you could lose your house. Social security isnt enough. Its a big problem that isn't going to get better. I hope I'm prepared.
Yes, I read the statistics on the retirement savings also. And some of it I can understand. As pensions were dropped, people were encouraged to put retirement savings into 401K plans. On the surface they looked like the thing to do. Although I had a pension plan, I also contributed to a 401K as added protection. Over the years it took some major hits during recession periods, maybe my fault as I should have reacted quicker and converted it to the guaranteed income basis and then back. Of course I attribute all of this to the Wall Street bas*tar*s who I totally believe manipulate the markets.

When I retired 9 years ago, about 2 years early taking a buyout I could not turn down, the company terminated their pension plan. I was fully vested so it did not affect me. My brother, who is 4 years younger than me and not fully vested was affected, as he retired 5 years later.

My pension is not great, but sure beats a blank. The gross pension was 40% of the best 5 year average of the last 10 year earnings. Like about everything else in life, I accepted a reduced amount to protect my wife in case I croak first.

Frankly, without the pension we would be in dire straits. Let me re-phrase that, without the pension we would be having to tap the result of the 401K which I converted to a standard IRA, plus some inherited accounts, on a monthly basis. Since I am over 70 we of course are required to take a minimum yearly amount out of the IRA, which is of course taxable.

I expect to be taxed on my pension and the IRA distribution, but what frosts me is because of them I am taxed on 85% of my Social Security. That was not tax deferred income, I paid taxes on those deductions when they went in. Now I guess they consider I am so flush I can pay taxes on it once again.

It also disturbs me when seniors are automatially equated as a drain on the healthcare system. My wife has severe mobility problems and requires a motorized wheelchair to get around. With the aid of a walker, she can manage about 15 feet before she has to sit down.

So I needed to purchase a wheelchair conversion van so she can get around outside of the house. To give her some quality of life we have a caregiver who comes in during the week to assist her with everything from bathing, dressing, to going to the Mason Community Center for some pool exercise, to going to craft classes in the area, etc. And who pays for all of this - we do! Not the public, not Medicare, We Do!

So my advice in the current climate to younger people is just before you retire sell your house, take the proceeds and go on a world cruise. Spend all of the money. Then retire and go into a nursing home, penniless, and let MEDICAID pay for everything!

Sorry for being so pessimistic, but that is just the way I feel. Those who feel it is the health costs of the seniors which are bringing down this country, answer me one thing - where do you think the health costs will be when you get there and who is going to be paying for them? Like the schools, the healthcare industry needs to be drawn back in.
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