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Old 11-07-2011, 02:43 PM
 
2,308 posts, read 1,978,633 times
Reputation: 1072
Quote:
Originally Posted by Traveler87 View Post
Smitherman is quite the opposite. He is a liar and hides the facts. If it is true that he goes against the mayor, he is even more pathetic than he sounds. I have yet to hear one anti-streetcar advocate make any sense on the issue. In other threads, people have asked what you would do to make the city better. No one has come up with what they would do to make the city better.

The city hasn't done anything new for decades, what does it lead to, a 10% decline in population, loss of tax revenue, etc, etc. People bi*** and complain about police force, fire department, and everything else, but when it comes to making the city a better place and attracting residents, and keeping the police force, fire department; no one has anything to say to make the city a more attractive and livable area. Yet, 3CDC comes in and renovates OTR building by building, new development comes to the riverfront, and downtown. Connecting these by the streetcar would only bring in more investment. Cincinnati is too great of a city to pass amazing oppurtunities like this by.

So, what would you do to invest in the city? What would you do to stop population decline? How would you gentrify neighborhoods. All these anti streetcar people do is talk down on the streetcar, but the lack of knowledge on transit is astounding.
Since I guess you didn't hear me the first time, let me make it even simpler for you. CODE ENFORCEMENT. CODE ENFORCEMENT. CODE ENFORCEMENT. Did you hear me yet? Need me to repeat?
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Old 11-07-2011, 04:30 PM
 
14 posts, read 15,203 times
Reputation: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Traveler87 View Post
What's the guys name, Smitherman? It is one thing to have a personal bias and look out for your politcal campaign, but to lie to the public when the facts are out there that have proved you wrong but you know the majority will be lazy instead of looking up the facts, tells me this guy is as corrupt as they come.

He will make sure Cincinnati never has rail. I wouldn't be shocked if people say "no" to rail tommorow.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilson513 View Post
I saw Smitherman on Media Bridges (public access) last week and he made more sense in 20 minutes than any of the pro streetcar promoters have in two years. I am not a fan of Smitherman, but he knows this streetcar is promoted solely by greed and influence peddling.
I've also seen Smitherman on public access and he does seem to make some interesting points and bring out alledged information about the inner workings of city council that I was not aware of(although he does have a tendency to drag things on and to not go deeper into the heart of the matter). However, I did look up some information about this issue and citybeat.com brought out:

Quote:
Based on the latest comments on his Facebook page, it appears Christopher Smitherman either doesn't understand the wording of Issue 48 or is deliberately trying to mislead voters.

On Wednesday, Smitherman wrote on his Facebook page: “Remember Issue 48 DOES not STOP light rail but it does force City Council to ask the citizens (sic) permission before spending $144 million. City Council does not want to ask the people (for) permission.”
Smitherman's Strange Assertions

Also, I went to Smitherman's Facebook page to look this comment up...and he did actually make this comment on Wednesday, October 26 at 5:23am:

Smitherman for Cincinnati City Council - Public Figure - Cincinnati, OH | Facebook

Therefore, sorry to say, but this doesn't bode well for Smitherman.
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Old 11-07-2011, 04:36 PM
 
14 posts, read 15,203 times
Reputation: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bhiggins View Post
Actually we have two freeway projects currently going...

I-75 Mill Creek Expressway

Thru The Valley
Thank you, Bhiggins, for that information. Also, thank you everyone for your feedback in this thread.
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Old 11-07-2011, 04:41 PM
 
14 posts, read 15,203 times
Reputation: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by CinciFan View Post
It's true that the streetcar won't really help alleviate highway traffic, but the streetcar is meant to be the first step into rail transportation in Cincinnati. The ultimate plan is for the streetcar to tie in with light rail at the "unused riverfront transit center." This will absolutely help reduce traffic on our highways. Imagine being able to get on a train near your home, hop off at the riverfront transit center, and take the streetcar throughout Downtown, OTR, and Clifton. Sounds pretty nice to me.

I am going to vote NO on issue 48 because it is an awful idea. It would kill all rail transit in Cincinnati for 10 years, even if a private company was willing to cover all of the costs. That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.

Also, the people leading the opposition to the streetcar are very shady. They continuously spew their lies in an attempt to stir up hate for the streetcar. In fact, just last week a suit was filed against COAST calling them, saying that they knowingly made false accusations to influence the vote on issue 48. How did COAST respond? Chris Finney went today to the "U.S. District Court in Cincinnati to sue the State of Ohio to have Ohio's law against making false statements to affect the outcome of an election declared unconstitutional." (Source is John Schneider, a leading streetcar supporter). SHADY.

Disclaimer: I'm a conservative, and I see right through their garbage.

So in response to the OP, no, Cincinnati is not crazy, but if issue 48 is passed, we will be.
Also, interesting post.
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Old 11-07-2011, 09:00 PM
 
2,472 posts, read 1,968,384 times
Reputation: 1299
Quote:
Originally Posted by Traveler87 View Post
Smitherman is quite the opposite. He is a liar and hides the facts. If it is true that he goes against the mayor, he is even more pathetic than he sounds. I have yet to hear one anti-streetcar advocate make any sense on the issue. In other threads, people have asked what you would do to make the city better. No one has come up with what they would do to make the city better.

The city hasn't done anything new for decades, what does it lead to, a 10% decline in population, loss of tax revenue, etc, etc. People bi*** and complain about police force, fire department, and everything else, but when it comes to making the city a better place and attracting residents, and keeping the police force, fire department; no one has anything to say to make the city a more attractive and livable area. Yet, 3CDC comes in and renovates OTR building by building, new development comes to the riverfront, and downtown. Connecting these by the streetcar would only bring in more investment. Cincinnati is too great of a city to pass amazing oppurtunities like this by.

So, what would you do to invest in the city? What would you do to stop population decline? How would you gentrify neighborhoods. All these anti streetcar people do is talk down on the streetcar, but the lack of knowledge on transit is astounding.
Don't bother anymore, Traveler. They're not listening.

And they'll get the stagnant city they deserve - the one that Mark Twain famously mocked for being woefully behind the times. And the one that young people will trip over themselves to leave in droves, bound for cities that move forward like Charlotte, Denver and Atlanta. The people here have watched it happen for the last 40 years and, frankly, I don't think a lot of them really care.

Cincinnati is an amazingly beautiful city with unlimited world-class potential. But unfortunately, its residents will never allow it to reach that level. I've never lived in nor even visited a city where so many of its own residents want to hold it down as much as Cincinnati. The status quo is almost a religion here. And it's disgusting, to say the least. Sometimes I wish that people in Cincinnati would get out more and see the world - travel someplace besides Pigeon Forge once every other year - and realize what this city could become ... realize the enormity of untapped potential greatness here.

But then I just get suffocated by the attitudes of people like Chris Smitherman, COAST, WLW and so many other Cincinnati haters (a lot of whom are represented well on this board) and I just give up.

I'm sure that, sometime around 8 o'clock tomorrow night after the polls close and the ignorance is official, my love affair with Denver will be significantly rekindled.

Last edited by abr7rmj; 11-07-2011 at 09:39 PM..
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Old 11-07-2011, 09:51 PM
 
3,427 posts, read 5,335,435 times
Reputation: 2229
Quote:
Originally Posted by abr7rmj View Post
Don't bother anymore, Traveler. They're not listening.

And they'll get the stagnant city they deserve - the one that Mark Twain famously mocked for being woefully behind the times. And the one that young people will trip over themselves to leave in droves, bound for cities that move forward like Charlotte, Denver and Atlanta. The people here have watched it happen for the last 40 years and, frankly, I don't think a lot of them really care.

Cincinnati is an amazingly beautiful city with unlimited world-class potential. But unfortunately, its residents will never allow it to reach that level. I've never lived in nor even visited a city where so many of its own residents want to hold it down as much as Cincinnati. The status quo is almost a religion here. And it's disgusting, to say the least. Sometimes I wish that people in Cincinnati would get out more and see the world - travel someplace besides Pigeon Forge once every other year - and realize what this city could become ... realize the enormity of untapped potential greatness here.

But then I just get suffocated by the attitudes of people like Chris Smitherman, COAST, WLW and so many other Cincinnati haters (a lot of whom are represented well on this board) and I just give up.

I'm sure that, sometime around 8 o'clock tomorrow night after the polls close and the ignorance is official, my love affair with Denver will be significantly rekindled.
Or, in my case, Silicon Valley.

I loved Cincinnati when I arrived but knew something was awry. I don't miss it at all now. And you should've seen the ***** chewings I received when I posted my experiences in Cincy here on the forum just before I moved. Talk about defensive!

I want better for Cincinnati. I believe it already is arguably the best city in the Ohio Valley. But it has a long way to go before truly becoming a "Queen City." Really, it's saddening. I plan on returning to Kentucky for a week next month and will spend a day in Cincy to reconnect w/ friends, old co-workers and eat some Dixie Chili. But a day will probably be long enough.
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Old 11-07-2011, 10:06 PM
 
854 posts, read 662,209 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by abr7rmj View Post
I'm sure that, sometime around 8 o'clock tomorrow night after the polls close and the ignorance is official, my love affair with Denver will be significantly rekindled.
This bulls*** has been voted down once, and it can be again. Keep the faith!
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Old 11-07-2011, 10:26 PM
 
Location: Ohio
10,299 posts, read 5,616,012 times
Reputation: 5858
Quote:
Originally Posted by abr7rmj View Post
The fact that some people willingly want to tie this city's hands behind its back and prohibit any sort of rail development here for the next decade is so ridiculous, it's sublime. Nowhere else in this country would residents shoot their own city in the foot with a long-term ban like that. But, this is Cincinnati after all.
It doesn't do that.

I'm voting down the Stupid Car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by abr7rmj View Post
Fortunately, most of the most vocal opposition to the streetcar comes from people who live outside Cincinnati city limits, so they have no real say in the matter. So there's that.
I live at 12th and Race.

Quote:
Originally Posted by abr7rmj View Post
Here's hoping people realize that this city badly needs rail transportation in the coming years if it wants to continue to even think about competing for new jobs and new, young residents.
I do realize that and have advocated rapid mass transit for years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by abr7rmj View Post
Even people who are personally opposed to the streetcar itself are starting to see that banning all rail projects for the next decade is civic suicide.
It only bans the Stupid Car. If Cincinnati wants to muster up enough courage to admit that it is totally incompetent and ask Hamilton, Butler, Warren, Clermont, Kenton and Boone Counties for help in planning a regional rapid mass transit system, then Cincinnati can do that because the issue does not prohibit it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by abr7rmj View Post
Hell, even the ultra-conservative Cincinnati Enquirer called the referendum to ban the streetcar a "bad, bad, bad idea," adding that "we vigorously oppose Issue 48 and urge voters to reject it."
Ultra-conservative? No, I'm ultra-conservative. There is no one living or dead to the right of me.

The Cincinnasti Enquirer has been quite liberal for years, and that, plus the fact that they retracted the Chiquita story and the incredibly bad grammar, punctuation and spelling is the reason I canceled my subscription.

Quote:
Originally Posted by abr7rmj View Post
The following organizations/people have come out in opposition to Issue 48 and/or in support of the Cincinnati streetcar:

Cincinnati Enquirer
Cincinnati City Beat
League of Women Voters
Sheriff Simon Leis (R)
Judge Mark Painter (R)
Former Cincinnati NAACP leaders Judge Nathanial R. Jones and Milton W. Hinton
Cincinnati USA Regional Chamber of Commerce
Over-the-Rhine Chamber of Commerce
Uptown Consortium
Horseshoe Casino Cincinnati
Christ Hospital
City of Newport, Ky.
Cincinnati Mayor Mark Mallory (D)
Cincinnati Vice Mayor Roxanne Qualls (D)
Yeah, all of them have a vested interest and wouldn't admit if it was a bad idea under any circumstances, including the fact that its' a bad idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CinciFan View Post
It's true that the streetcar won't really help alleviate highway traffic, but the streetcar is meant to be the first step into rail transportation in Cincinnati.
No, the first step in rail transportation would be a rapid mass transit line running from the Greater Cincinnati and Northern Kentucky Airport to Kings Island, or in the alternative, from downtown to Tri-County (in 21 minutes).

Quote:
Originally Posted by CinciFan View Post
The ultimate plan is for the streetcar to tie in with light rail....
You mean bus? That's what light rail is: a bus.

Like Shakespeare said, "...a bus by any other name still runs so slow as to guarantee it will never be used by the public."

Quote:
Originally Posted by CinciFan View Post
at the "unused riverfront transit center." This will absolutely help reduce traffic on our highways. Imagine being able to get on a train near your home, hop off at the riverfront transit center, and take the streetcar throughout Downtown, OTR, and Clifton. Sounds pretty nice to me.
What, 3 hours later? No thanks, I could walk faster than that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CinciFan View Post
Also, the people leading the opposition to the streetcar are very shady.
I'm not shady.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kjbrill View Post
Yes, if the City builds the streetcar, it will either be the City's success or its Debacle. As with everything, time will tell.
It will be a total failure and ultimately end up getting dismantled, at great cost and expense to the tax payers, and the tax payers are already looted and raped.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chemistry_Guy View Post
It seems that a disproportionate amount of state money gets spent in Columbus, just as a disproportionate amount of city money gets spent downtown..
It's part and parcel of unitary theory.

Quote:
Originally Posted by abr7rmj View Post
- There are entire cities within cities (St. Bernard, Norwood) that don't want any part of what surrounds them;
If it were put to a vote tomorrow, Clifton would become a separate city and no longer have to chafe under the stupidity of City Council.

No one in the right mind would want to be a part of Cincinnati.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CinciFan View Post
I see your point, but the ballot issue makes it illegal to even PLAN an issue for the next ten years, so there wouldn't be a plan to have a special vote on.
Quote:
Shall the Charter of the City of Cincinnati be amended to prohibit the City, the City Manager, the Mayor, the Council and the City's various boards, commissions, agencies and departments from spending or appropriating any monies or incurring any indebtedness or contractual obligations for the purpose of financing, designing, engineering, constructing, building or operating a streetcar system which means a system of passenger vehicles operated on rails constructed primarily in existing public right of ways through the year 2020, by enacting new Article XVI
Street car, not rapid mass transit.

VOTE YES AND STOP THE STUPIDITY

Quote:
Originally Posted by CinciFan View Post
That means that we would have to wait until 2020, plus the time it takes to plan a project, plus however long it takes to construct. So it's possible we may not have any form of rail transportation until 2030. I don't think that's a risk Cincy can afford to take, when almost every other city in the country is planning rail improvements.
If it were up to me, you would wait until the end of time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CinciFan View Post
Also, the Eastern Corridor project is apparently still in the planning stages. That project would also be cancelled as a result of issue 48.
No, it would not, unless it is a street car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by abr7rmj View Post
Dangerous thinking, this is. Forget the streetcar - that's small potatoes. If you support Cincinnati even exploring a light rail system to connect to the suburbs...
You mean a bus?

We already have a bus to connect the suburbs. Want to know why people in the suburbs refuse to ride the bus?

Because it is of no value to them. What is of value to them is TIME. They have precious little TIME and no one wants to waste their TIME on a bus.

A light rail system is nothing more than a bus on a rail line.

No one will ride it.

You want people to ride something? Then build a freaking mass transit system that gets people from Green Township and Miami Township (the real one -- in Hamilton County) and Harrison and Crosby Townships to downtown in 16 minutes.

If you can't move people from Kings Mill, West Chester and Hamilton! to down-town in 25 minutes or less, then you don't build it.

If you can't move people from Tri-County to downtown in 19 minutes, then you don't build it.

Just about every city on Earth can do that, except Cincinnati.

If you cannot do what I said, no one will ever ride your fancy light bus on a rail system.

TIME is incredibly valuable to those people, more valuable than money. They absolutely refuse to spend an extra 30, 60, 90 or 120 minutes commuting on a light bus on a rail.

But get them from West Chester to downtown in 25 minutes on a rapid transit system, and that thing will be packed every day, because you are saving them the one thing they need more than anything else, and that is TIME. TIME to shop, TIME to cook, TIME to do things around the house, and TIME to spend with their families.

If you ever want to see a chance to have the Summer Olympics in the Greater Cincinnati, Northern Kentucky Southeastern Indiana region, which would be fantastic and a tremendous boost in more ways than you can count, then you have to build rapid mass transit, because a light bus on a rail is not going to get it.

The IOC even said so.

So why waste money on light bus on a rail?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilson513 View Post
I'd like to hear from those of you who have used public or motorized transportation for a trip starting and finishing among these destinations:

  • Government Square
  • Fountain Square
  • Contemporary Arts Center
  • Public Library
  • Aronoff Center
  • Horseshoe Casino
  • Gateway Quarter
  • School for the Creative and Performing Arts
  • Music Hall
  • Washington Park
Since it can be walked in 10 minutes, I doubt there is one person who has done this. I mean, why would a person need to.
They wouldn't need to and worse than that, in the time they waste standing around waiting for the Stupid Car they could already be there.

Hell the Downtowner doesn't even make any money. How sad is that? If you can't keep the Downtowner operating then why would a Stupid Car work?

TANK has reduced service on the shuttle to Covington/Newport.

Service ends at 7:00 PM Sunday through Thursday and at 10:00 PM on Friday and Saturday.

I can see the Stupid Car now operating from 12:00 PM to 2:00 PM Monday through Friday and 12:00 PM to 4:00 PM on Saturday and Sunday.

I think people who support the Stupid Car should be required to put up a $2,000 Surety Bond so that the rest of us don't get soaked when the cost over-runs and no ridership kills it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by abr7rmj View Post
Also, if you've been paying even a little bit of attention to what's going on in those other "hip" cities, as you deride them, you'd know that significant economic development almost immediately follows a streetcar's implementation.
Oh, yeah?

Please enlighten us all on Tampa's "People Mover."

I'm sure you'll run away from that one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by abr7rmj View Post
And perhaps that's a lot of the opposition to the steetcar: Haters know full well that the system will work as advertised and they aren't comfortable with the fact that the undesirable element will be forced out and may move closer to them. Keep 'em locked where they are, huh?
The undesirable element has been moved out for the last several years, so you don't need a Stupid Car to do that.

The system will not work. I guarantee it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by abr7rmj View Post
Incidentally, I know plenty of people who wouldn't be physically capable of walking from Fountain Square to Findlay Market. Not everyone is as blessed as you with the ability to do that walk in 10 minutes (laughable), carrying bags of groceries, no less.
Who lives at Fountain Square?

That's what I thought. I live at 12th and Race and I walk to Findlay Market.

I must say, it is a much nicer trip now that nearly all (but unfortunately not all) of the turds have been evicted.

They still have to clean up the area from Liberty to Findlay on Race Street and burn down that damn Our Daily Bread scumbag magnet, but it is better. Smells better too. And cleaner. Not as much litter lying about. And I don't get hit up for money, cigarettes or "Are you looking, baby?" (for what? Sex? Are you serious? I've owned cars that weighed less.) until I get to Liberty.
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Old 11-08-2011, 05:34 AM
 
Location: Cincinnati (Norwood)
2,100 posts, read 1,424,150 times
Reputation: 1000
^ Most certainly an impassioned and provocative post, Mircea--but you still don't get it! If you vote "yes" on Issue 48 (which you emphatically say you're going to do), you not only will halt the streetcar, but also other rail development (even the planning) for another ten-years! Now go shoot some more toes off your foot (and Cincinnati's) with your vote!
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Old 11-08-2011, 06:45 AM
 
Location: Mason, OH
8,637 posts, read 6,294,896 times
Reputation: 1693
Quote:
Originally Posted by motorman View Post
^ Most certainly an impassioned and provocative post, Mircea--but you still don't get it! If you vote "yes" on Issue 48 (which you emphatically say you're going to do), you not only will halt the streetcar, but also other rail development (even the planning) for another ten-years! Now go shoot some more toes off your foot (and Cincinnati's) with your vote!
It is just a charter amendment, and like any other charter amendment can be voted out anytime in the future. If it actually passes it just might mean the residents of Cincinnati feel other considerations are more important.
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