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Old 11-12-2011, 04:59 PM
 
Location: Philaburbia
31,225 posts, read 57,391,367 times
Reputation: 52084

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilson513 View Post
Who will make the beds? Who will wash the clothes ?
Don't be obtuse, Wilson. You're a better person than that. And you know darn well what I'm getting at. You want to put people to work (but you dont' say where), yet make no provisions for the preschool children they already have? What does that solve? When one of the reasons women don't work is because they have no affordable child care options?

Quote:
Has anyone here ever heard of personal responsibility?
No doubt the system is broken, and has to be changed. But one does not throw the baby, so to speak, out with the bath water.

 
Old 11-12-2011, 05:33 PM
 
10,139 posts, read 22,446,164 times
Reputation: 8244
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81 View Post
Don't be obtuse, Wilson. You're a better person than that. And you know darn well what I'm getting at. You want to put people to work (but you dont' say where), yet make no provisions for the preschool children they already have? What does that solve? When one of the reasons women don't work is because they have no affordable child care options?


No doubt the system is broken, and has to be changed. But one does not throw the baby, so to speak, out with the bath water.

When I was a senior in high school, I had a pretty busy day too but still had time for a 40 hour per week night shift factory job. I find it hard to believe that these women who have brought illegitimate children into the world cannot find someone to keep an eye on a couple of sleeping pre schoolers while they wash dishes somewhere.

My point is that it is not my problem to figure out their child care needs. Its their job. But, of course it isn't their job. Not in the Socialist Republic of USA.
 
Old 11-12-2011, 06:03 PM
 
Location: Covington, KY
1,879 posts, read 2,125,588 times
Reputation: 595
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilson513 View Post
When I was a senior in high school, I had a pretty busy day too but still had time for a 40 hour per week night shift factory job. I find it hard to believe that these women who have brought illegitimate children into the world cannot find someone to keep an eye on a couple of sleeping pre schoolers while they wash dishes somewhere.

My point is that it is not my problem to figure out their child care needs. Its their job. But, of course it isn't their job. Not in the Socialist Republic of USA.
Legitimate or illegitimate, with or without papa out there working, if momma needs a baby sitter, if grandma has an apartment, best check out her lease rules/requirements before thinking just drop the kids off there.
 
Old 11-12-2011, 07:35 PM
 
405 posts, read 754,410 times
Reputation: 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilson513 View Post
i want to puke every time I hear someone say, this doesn't affect me . . . but I would just like to change our whole way of life so that I don't feel so guilty about having two pensions. Barf!
.
Wilson--Fascinating. You confuse empathy with guilt. Have you ever experienced the feeling of empathy? Do you know what it is?

If you have ever experienced empathy for a single person or thing in your whole life (lets say, for a dying puppy, or a person with cancer), try to imagine feeling empathy for other people. Feeling bad for them, that they have to experience something so unpleasant!

For example, feeling bad that someone who worked hard their whole life, would retire with no pension, no savings, nothing but a hard scrabble , poverty stricken old age. Yes, I feel bad for them! Not guilt--empathy!

It may be you cannot do it, that is ok. Many people lack the trait. It has been associated with the growth of certain "mirror" neurons. You may not have them. in which case no one could expect you to experience empathy.

I certainly feel no guilt for the plight of the poor. I didn't do anything to cause the situation.
 
Old 11-12-2011, 07:47 PM
 
10,139 posts, read 22,446,164 times
Reputation: 8244
Somehow you think by insulting me your weeping liberal philosophies get more sensible. They don't. You believe in weeping and spending other peoples money.
 
Old 11-12-2011, 08:18 PM
 
Location: Philaburbia
31,225 posts, read 57,391,367 times
Reputation: 52084
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilson513 View Post
When I was a senior in high school, I had a pretty busy day too but still had time for a 40 hour per week night shift factory job.
Really? Who did you get to watch your kids while you were gone from the house for 15 hours a day?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarpathianPeasant View Post
if momma needs a baby sitter, if grandma has an apartment, best check out her lease rules/requirements before thinking just drop the kids off there.
Grandma has to work, too ...
 
Old 11-12-2011, 09:22 PM
 
405 posts, read 754,410 times
Reputation: 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilson513 View Post
Somehow you think by insulting me your weeping liberal philosophies get more sensible. They don't. You believe in weeping and spending other peoples money.
So you equate empathy with weeping?

Seriously, have you ever, in your whole life, experienced empathy for anyone or anything? I am not trying to insult you. As I said, some people literally cannot experience empathy. It isn't their fault.

If you have never experienced empathy, then you could never understand much of what happens in the world. You would constantly be mocking people who are so full of "guilt" or "weeping" all the time. I feel bad for people who have no capacity for empathy-- they are missing much of the human experience.

Now, you may be a very empathetic person. In which case you could simply say, "yes, I feel empathy for many things, but not for welfare recipients". Is that the case? Then we would simply disagree about our feelings.
 
Old 11-12-2011, 10:05 PM
 
10,139 posts, read 22,446,164 times
Reputation: 8244
Your endless attempts to personalize this show nothing but the weakness of your arguments and your person. It is the last bastion of a losing hand. I expect at any moment for you to degrade yourself further by a comment beginning with "yo momma . . . " I stoop to your level only to try to make you stand tall enough to lose the personal attacks that seem to be your only remaining argument and say why for example that you think that able bodied child bearing women who chose to have children without support from their father should be supported by the taxpayers. It is because it makes you feel better? Is it good for society? Stand up and face the argument.
 
Old 11-12-2011, 11:32 PM
 
405 posts, read 754,410 times
Reputation: 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilson513 View Post
Your endless attempts to personalize this show nothing but the weakness of your arguments and your person. It is the last bastion of a losing hand. .
Wilson, as you love to say, "Wrong again". Go back and look-- YOU are the one who started personalizing this, by saying that when I said I felt "bad" for people, I was a "guilty liberal" that made you "barf" and "puke". I was simply pointing out that you got it completely wrong, and that you were completely blind to the fact that I was experiencing empathy, not guilt.

Don't you see that if you get that wrong, and mistake empathy for guilt, you will never, ever understand my argument? This is an important point. If you are color blind, sorry, but I can never explain color to you. If you lack all empathy, then you will never understand the basis for compassion for the poor.

That being said, let me answer your question: yes, if there were jobs for able bodied people on welfare, I would be happy to shut down welfare and require them to work for their benefits!

But no, if there are no jobs for them, I don't think the answer is to just cut all benefits tomorrow! The answer would be to rebuild the economy over time, and then force the transition to work.

Now, you answer my questions (that you continue to avoid):
1) Where are the jobs? Before you give them to your welfare recipients, you better give jobs to the 10 Million who lost their jobs in the recession and unable to find work. Haven't you heard that there are 4-5 applicants for each opening?
2) Do you admit the existence of 15 Million "working poor" -- people who are working many hours a week but earn so little per hour that they still fit the criteria for poverty? What is your solution to that? Do you realize they don't fit into your theory that "all poor are alcoholics...etc"
3) Finally, what do you propose for the "elderly poor"-- people too old or frail to work? Do you propose we eliminate social security? What would happen to the elderly poor then?
 
Old 11-13-2011, 08:54 AM
 
Location: Mason, OH
9,259 posts, read 13,381,264 times
Reputation: 1920
Wilson and Wolden... You are both supplying more than enough material to saturate this forum. Obviously your positions are diametrically opposite. While I know the current system is a total failure, I also cannot help but feel empathy for those involved. But some things I just do not understand. Why cannot there be a system of public work projects requiring sweat equity from those getting public assistance? If the court system says this in unjust, then it is high time we replace the court system. This situation has been compounding for the last 50/60 years. If something is not done our society is doomed. I want something better for the future of our country. While I have empathy, as I said earlier those having kids with no means of support, take the hardline and put the kids in public care. This may seem cruel, but look at the actual present circumstance. They grow up and become drug dealers or worse. If society has to pay the bill, then society should dictate the conditions.
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