Cincinnati Downtown Residential (Mason: cul-de-sac, city hall, credit)

[kjbrill]

Since joining this board, I keep hearing about the great strides in residential debvelopment in downtown Cincinnati. So I decided to go look up some actual figures. According to information found on UrbanCincy, the downtown population figures over the last five years are:

2005 - 7,500 residents or 2.5% of City population
2009 - 9,000 residents, an increase of 20% but still only 3% of City population
2012 - projected 10,500 residents, another increase of 17% but still only 3.5% of City population. And projections are always easier than real facts.

While downtown has shown some decent gains percentage wise, at only a projected 3.5% of the City's population that is still an absymal value. It only indicates how far downtown slipped and how far it still has to go.

Those who champion the downtown restoration and living are to be commended. But to say it is the difference maker for the young professional crowd to select Cincinnati as their choice to live - NO WAY! That is like saying the Hippies of the 60s made San Francisco.

[Joeytraveler]

Keep in mind this only speaks about what's going on south of central parkway. It seems like everyone has there own definition of what constitutes downtown.

I'd say its a diference maker for me chosing to live here due to the fact that's it's undervalued by the greater community is what makes it appealing in a financial sense. I can own an architectural signifigany house within walking distance off anything I could need. It's not likely something I could afford to do in Chicago, dc, etc.

[kjbrill]

Originally Posted by Joeytraveler

Keep in mind this only speaks about what's going on south of central parkway. It seems like everyone has there own definition of what constitutes downtown.

I'd say its a diference maker for me chosing to live here due to the fact that's it's undervalued by the greater community is what makes it appealing in a financial sense. I can own an architectural signifigany house within walking distance off anything I could need. It's not likely something I could afford to do in Chicago, dc, etc.

Your circumstance seems to fit. You have good value for what you have - that is great. As long as you are satisfied with the result - that is all that is necessary. But to say it is to do-all-to-end-all for everyone, that is where I draw the line.

[abr7rmj]

Unreal. Another city-bashing post. Really, do you really hate Cincinnati as much as it appears you do? Downtown has made monumental strides in the past 6-7 years, and that's undeniable. You pride yourself in admitting that you haven't so much as stepped foot inside the city - let alone downtown - in many years. Quite frankly, anything you say regarding the city, downtown or OTR - 100 percent of which is based upon what you see on TV or read on the computer - is suspect, to say the least, and should probably be taken with an asteroid-sized grain of salt.

I'm sorry, but your Internet "research" falls far short of depicting what is going on in downtown and OTR. I'd welcome you to come take a look for yourself, but you won't. You clearly have an agenda and almost every post supports it. And I mean posts on just about any topic: From a visitor praising the McCartney concert (you criticized it being held in Cincinnati) to positive rankings of Cincinnati (you blast the integrity of those doing the ranking) to the Bengals (you laughed at suggestions they'd win six games) to the streetcar (you mock people who support it) to the stadiums (you wanted the Reds and Bengals to leave town), you have a decided anti Cincinnati bias. Not to mention, in just about every single relocation thread you advise people not to consider the city but to move out to the burbs instead - even if they specifically state they are interested in downtown or the city. This, my friend, is quite the pattern.

Perhaps you didn't appreciate the thread the other day from the visitor from Michigan who's actively looking to move downtown. Not only did you needlessly warn him about the blocks north of Fountain Square, but you start this thread a day or two later.

Incidentally, I noticed you never responded the other day about the little "incident" up at Fields Ertel. You know, the one where the woman was carjacked, abducted, beaten and robbed? Perhaps you've been too busy thinking of new ways to bash downtown. So, in case you missed:

Woman kidnapped, robbed in Symmes Twp. | Cincinnati.com | cincinnati.com

Tree-lined cul-de-sacs indeed.

[Joeytraveler]

I agree kjbrill and while I'll advocate for where I live I understand that it's not for everyone. I think that where people get confused here. Just because I throw a hat in the ring for an area I'm doing so just to raise awareness and put something on the radar for someone who might otherwise not hear about a neighborhood. Ultimately we have to find where we are happy.

[Chemistry_Guy]

Everyone I know that lives downtown loves it. My wife lived in prospect hill before we were married and thought it was a fine place to live. If I were single or had no thoughts about having kids soon I would consider living there myself.

However, priorities change once a person gets married and thinks about raising kids. I notice that most of the people constantly defending downtown urban living are single and/or without kids. While single professionals are a demographic that is used to being catered to, Cincinnati is simply not a place where they have as much clout as other cities. Cincinnati has quite a bit of conservative Catholic heritage, and many Cincinnatians in their 20s are thinking about settling down and starting a family earlier than a place like Seattle or New Orleans. These people care a lot more about schools, stable property values, having space to pursue hobbies, and shouldering responsibilities than stylish architecture, access to a social scene, and eclectic dining options. I'm 32 now, and I recognize that my priorities have changed significantly since I was 27 and single. It is very easy, when you exclusively socialize with other younger people, to think that your specific needs and wants represent a cross section of the population as a whole.

I think the OP raised a valid point when he pointed out that the single downtown professional represents a very small fraction of the voting population, and that asserting that what is best for the young professionals is best for the city is not an accurate statement.

[Sarah Perry]

If the numbers kjbrill posted are anywhere near accurate, then I think they're impressive. Talking about what percentages of City of Cincinnati housing units are located downtown seems meaningless and pointless to me. It's a primarily commercial area, after all, but it won't be revitalized until and unless there are people living there, too. And a good case can be made that even a few housing units in downtown have more impact on overall community development and economic health than a similar number in, say, an inner-ring suburb.

To me the numbers are even more impressive given the graft, corruption, and relative incompetence and impotence of city government. From what I've read, a rehab project in Cincinnati represents a bureaucratic and red-tape nightmare. I can't even imagine the strides downtown could make if our city fathers and mothers--so accurately portrayed in a recent campaign commercial as a bunch of children fighting over toys--would abandon the moneywasting big fix projects that are primarily designed to funnel money to cronies of the people in City Hall (and that includes the streetcar) and spend those dollars on initiatives that are more dollar cost effective. Which is about all the city, in its somewhat debilitated condition, can afford right now.

[kjbrill]

Originally Posted by abr7rmj

Unreal. Another city-bashing post. Really, do you really hate Cincinnati as much as it appears you do? Downtown has made monumental strides in the past 6-7 years, and that's undeniable. You pride yourself in admitting that you haven't so much as stepped foot inside the city - let alone downtown - in many years. Quite frankly, anything you say regarding the city, downtown or OTR - 100 percent of which is based upon what you see on TV or read on the computer - is suspect, to say the least, and should probably be taken with an asteroid-sized grain of salt.

I'm sorry, but your Internet "research" falls far short of depicting what is going on in downtown and OTR. I'd welcome you to come take a look for yourself, but you won't. You clearly have an agenda and almost every post supports it. And I mean posts on just about any topic: From a visitor praising the McCartney concert (you criticized it being held in Cincinnati) to positive rankings of Cincinnati (you blast the integrity of those doing the ranking) to the Bengals (you laughed at suggestions they'd win six games) to the streetcar (you mock people who support it) to the stadiums (you wanted the Reds and Bengals to leave town), you have a decided anti Cincinnati bias. Not to mention, in just about every single relocation thread you advise people not to consider the city but to move out to the burbs instead - even if they specifically state they are interested in downtown or the city. This, my friend, is quite the pattern.

Perhaps you didn't appreciate the thread the other day from the visitor from Michigan who's actively looking to move downtown. Not only did you needlessly warn him about the blocks north of Fountain Square, but you start this thread a day or two later.

Incidentally, I noticed you never responded the other day about the little "incident" up at Fields Ertel. You know, the one where the woman was carjacked, abducted, beaten and robbed? Perhaps you've been too busy thinking of new ways to bash downtown. So, in case you missed:

Woman kidnapped, robbed in Symmes Twp. | Cincinnati.com | cincinnati.com

Tree-lined cul-de-sacs indeed.

Go on call me a City basher, as that is what you want to believe. Say I am always against living in the City, as that is another thing you want to believe. Ignore the fact I recently advised someone inquiring about relocation for a downtown job I would not advise a commute from Mason unless they had kids and just wanted good schools with a less than desirable commute. Just because I site some data that downtown revival is not all of the rosy aurora some would like to make it out to be does not mean I am against it. True, at my age and condition I have very little reason to go downtown. That does not mean I have to abdicate my interest as part of the Geater Cincinnati Community. What I object to is those painting a picture for downtown which is not yet true. Improving - Yes, already arrived - No. The savior of Cincinnati - hardly. An opportunity for high-end developers - definitely.

[Joeytraveler]

@chem_guy I've lived in prospect hill for 5 years and there does seem to be an uptick in the # of kids around here. Not sure if it's a real trend or not but it is somewhat noticeable in the present. At the home tour / progressive dinner there were a few couples with kids who were moving here or looking at it seriously. I will say the kids I know growing up here wont have the standard growing up experience but that's to be expected when you've been riding your bike around OtR since you were young.

[Joeytraveler]

As far as red tape goes I haven't experienced any but my take is that when you're providing the capital you are somewhat more removed from such things. It's when you get involved in state historic tax credits or equivalent programs on a local or state level that it can get messy.