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Old 11-29-2011, 12:32 PM
 
Location: A voice of truth, shouted down by fools.
1,086 posts, read 2,229,244 times
Reputation: 894

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Part of GE's poor general reputation as a company probably stems from Jack Welch. From Wikipedia:

Quote:
Welch has also received criticism over the years for an apparent lack of compassion for the middle class and working class. By his actions during acquisitions and wholesale shutdowns of GE business units Welch proved that his technique of only keeping the units your company is "good" at you can maximize ROI for the short term. In the meantime (as of the 1990) thousands of employees have been removed from the rolls of GE. Welch has publicly stated that he is not concerned with the discrepancy between the salaries of top-paid CEOs and those of average workers.
Besides that, there has ALWAYS been a sort of derisive taking for granted of large local employers like GE, and before that GM, Ford, etc. The plants are big and ugly, the workers are unionized and a lot of people like to paint their workforces as entitled slobs, and GE Evendale has a history of highly cyclic hire-and-fire.

Much of this stems from the bite that hand that feeds you anticommercialism of the counterculture of the 60s, and since things around Cincinnati don't advance that quickly... here we are probably stuck in some of that washed up hippie feeling.
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Old 11-29-2011, 12:48 PM
 
6,351 posts, read 18,931,708 times
Reputation: 9895
Jen35, I maintained the J79 jet engine in a former life and still hold GE in high esteem! But don't get me started on the airframe that McDonnell-Douglas put it in (F-4 Phantom II)...

BOT; I truly believe there are few REALLY good corporate citizens in this country any more...
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Old 11-29-2011, 12:51 PM
 
Location: Cincinnati
171 posts, read 295,898 times
Reputation: 116
It's interesting to hear people's opinions of where you work. As I'm not from around here, and was raised in a very pro-capitalism environment, I find Cincinnati sometimes baffling. It often feels we want everything to fail in the city, hate big business, but yet still want others to feel sorry for us. Oh, and don't get me started on how this city is awful at supporting a winning Bengals team. It's like everyone wants an asterick next to their wins just so they can say, hey, I was right they weren't that good if they end up losing. Cincy Fans want to play both sides. I'm so sick of the I don't want to get burned mentality...As if we have anything to lose by blindly being happy for the success of a team...

Gets to me sometimes, but overall, I do have to say I love Cincinnati....
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Old 11-29-2011, 12:59 PM
 
2,492 posts, read 3,664,626 times
Reputation: 1385
Chiquita (even before their announced move)
The Enquirer
Forest Fair Mall/Cincinnati Mills/whatever it is now
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Old 11-29-2011, 01:24 PM
 
Location: West Palm Beach
620 posts, read 994,786 times
Reputation: 447
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jen35 View Post
It's interesting to hear people's opinions of where you work. As I'm not from around here, and was raised in a very pro-capitalism environment, I find Cincinnati sometimes baffling. It often feels we want everything to fail in the city, hate big business, but yet still want others to feel sorry for us. Oh, and don't get me started on how this city is awful at supporting a winning Bengals team. It's like everyone wants an asterick next to their wins just so they can say, hey, I was right they weren't that good if they end up losing. Cincy Fans want to play both sides. I'm so sick of the I don't want to get burned mentality...As if we have anything to lose by blindly being happy for the success of a team...

Gets to me sometimes, but overall, I do have to say I love Cincinnati....
I mean, yeah... they're doing great right now, and they have some promising talent, but that doesn't take away the last 2 decades of misery. After selling out countless LOSING seasons, is it that hrad to believe that it'll take some time to gain fans financial support all the way back. Back to back play-off appearences would be a start, players staying out of trouble will be next, followed by a superbowl win, that's how u satisfy fans. Giving taxpayers the s**tty end of the stick on a stadium deal doesn't help either.
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Old 11-29-2011, 01:36 PM
 
Location: Cincinnati
171 posts, read 295,898 times
Reputation: 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by austiNati View Post
I mean, yeah... they're doing great right now, and they have some promising talent, but that doesn't take away the last 2 decades of misery. After selling out countless LOSING seasons, is it that hrad to believe that it'll take some time to gain fans financial support all the way back. Back to back play-off appearences would be a start, players staying out of trouble will be next, followed by a superbowl win, that's how u satisfy fans. Giving taxpayers the s**tty end of the stick on a stadium deal doesn't help either.
Disagree with you on that one. I support the Bengals win or lose because I love the NFL and love the team. It's not the current players fault that there are years of losing before they got here. How is that Andy Dalton or AJ Green's fault. Or for that matter, anyone on the teams fault? They come to play each week, and I go to support them each week they are home. How does not supporting a team help them get better?? No support means less money to spend on players which allows them to get worse and worse. Also, what big FA is going to come play in a town where you don't have your fans supporting you.

This a perfect example of what frustrates me with Cincinnati. We seem to get stuck on the past and use it as an excuse not to support the future. I worry that if the team doesn't get support, they will pick up and leave Ohio. How is that better for the city? Also, I don't think there is anyone out there who used to go to games that is not going to games this year due to the stadium tax issue or player arrests back in 2005-2006. That's just more excuses...

Why can't people just be happy with the fact we currently have a winning NFL team in Cincinnati. Can I guarantee they will end with a winning season, of course not, but why does that matter? They play hard and don't quit which is all any city can ask of their professional teams.
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Old 11-29-2011, 01:44 PM
 
2,492 posts, read 3,664,626 times
Reputation: 1385
Quote:
Originally Posted by austiNati View Post
I mean, yeah... they're doing great right now, and they have some promising talent, but that doesn't take away the last 2 decades of misery. After selling out countless LOSING seasons, is it that hrad to believe that it'll take some time to gain fans financial support all the way back. Back to back play-off appearences would be a start, players staying out of trouble will be next, followed by a superbowl win, that's how u satisfy fans. Giving taxpayers the s**tty end of the stick on a stadium deal doesn't help either.
I just don't understand this two decades of misery thing and why Cincinnati feels it is entitled to success even though just about every other city suffers through the same sports doldrums. The Boston Red Sox had nine decades of abject misery and failure, yet they are and always have been one of baseball's most popular and supported franchises. The Chicago Cubs are hapless and historic losers, but they retain their immense popularity and Wrigley Field is always sold out. This list goes on and on and on with pro franchises that have underwhelmed not for a few years, but for decades on end: Cleveland Browns, Cleveland Indians, Boston Bruins, Chicago White Sox, New Orleans Saints, Kansas City Chiefs, Kansas City Royals, Baltimore Orioles, Pittsburgh Pirates, Detroit Lions, Tampa Bay Bucs, LA Clippers, LA Kings, Sacramento Kings. Some of those teams finally ended their long droughts, others are still mired in them. ... heck, the Toronto Maple Leafs are the most beloved team in that city and they haven't been successful in decades. Try getting a ticket to any Leafs game.

But poor us in Cincinnati, we hate our team and mock them and boycott the games of an exciting 7-4 playoff-contention team because we've only won two division titles in the last 20 years. Poor, poor us.

Jen35: Great post!
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Old 11-29-2011, 09:40 PM
 
1,130 posts, read 2,031,166 times
Reputation: 700
It's not just the fact that the Bengals have been losers for 20 years...it has more to do with the ownership continually putting its own interests ahead of the community, the taxpayers, and the fans. I understand the Bengals are a business, and Mike Brown is a good businessman, but the fact is, he is personally enriching himself off of what is one of the fattest government subsidies going, and it leaves a pretty bad taste in the mouths of many when he shows no sign of gratitude, flexibility (knowing that the deal is killing the county), and on top of it asks for more (why should we buy him a new scoreboard???).

Then what about the fans? The long time season ticket holders who felt like they got one broken off in their rears with seat licenses and seats that weren't nearly as the ones they enjoyed at old Riverfront for the first 30 years of the franchise. They were treated poorly...and delivered a shoddy product.

I guess you have to admire Brown's loyalty, though. He continues to cast his friendly influence around his political stooges like Bedinghaus and Berding. To the taxpayer, the relationship between Brown and those two guys stinks on ice. All of us who voted for the stadium tax share in the blame, but we also voted in elected representatives who were supposed to look out for our interests when negotiating the fine points of the deal, and little did we know at the time how much the pols were in Brown's pocket.

So, it's more than just 20 years of losing and mismanagement of a football team that has the Cincinnati region holding its nose over the Bengals. It's the disgust over what has become of a one time source of pride for the city, brought here by one of the great men of professional football. It's disgust over how the taxpayer is continuing to be squeezed, and it's disgust over years of shady dealing and virtual extortion via threats to leave town or sue to get what's supposedly owed...and in return, offering a product that has often been a national embarrassment.

That's why IMHO the Bengals have shown up in this thread.
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Old 11-30-2011, 06:14 AM
 
2,886 posts, read 3,966,680 times
Reputation: 1499
Quote:
Originally Posted by t45209 View Post
It's not just the fact that the Bengals have been losers for 20 years...it has more to do with the ownership continually putting its own interests ahead of the community, the taxpayers, and the fans. I understand the Bengals are a business, and Mike Brown is a good businessman, but the fact is, he is personally enriching himself off of what is one of the fattest government subsidies going, and it leaves a pretty bad taste in the mouths of many when he shows no sign of gratitude, flexibility (knowing that the deal is killing the county), and on top of it asks for more (why should we buy him a new scoreboard???).

Then what about the fans? The long time season ticket holders who felt like they got one broken off in their rears with seat licenses and seats that weren't nearly as the ones they enjoyed at old Riverfront for the first 30 years of the franchise. They were treated poorly...and delivered a shoddy product.

I guess you have to admire Brown's loyalty, though. He continues to cast his friendly influence around his political stooges like Bedinghaus and Berding. To the taxpayer, the relationship between Brown and those two guys stinks on ice. All of us who voted for the stadium tax share in the blame, but we also voted in elected representatives who were supposed to look out for our interests when negotiating the fine points of the deal, and little did we know at the time how much the pols were in Brown's pocket.

So, it's more than just 20 years of losing and mismanagement of a football team that has the Cincinnati region holding its nose over the Bengals. It's the disgust over what has become of a one time source of pride for the city, brought here by one of the great men of professional football. It's disgust over how the taxpayer is continuing to be squeezed, and it's disgust over years of shady dealing and virtual extortion via threats to leave town or sue to get what's supposedly owed...and in return, offering a product that has often been a national embarrassment.

That's why IMHO the Bengals have shown up in this thread.
I don't follow anything to do with the Bengals very closely, but based on what I do know, I think you pretty much nailed it. If I could change only one thing about Cincinnati, it would be to have people stop being so complacent about the greed and corruption of the power structure, whether public or private. There's way way too little accountability in this town. Across the board.
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Old 11-30-2011, 07:22 AM
 
1,130 posts, read 2,031,166 times
Reputation: 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by abr7rmj View Post
I just don't understand this two decades of misery thing and why Cincinnati feels it is entitled to success even though just about every other city suffers through the same sports doldrums. The Boston Red Sox had nine decades of abject misery and failure, yet they are and always have been one of baseball's most popular and supported franchises. The Chicago Cubs are hapless and historic losers, but they retain their immense popularity and Wrigley Field is always sold out. This list goes on and on and on with pro franchises that have underwhelmed not for a few years, but for decades on end: Cleveland Browns, Cleveland Indians, Boston Bruins, Chicago White Sox, New Orleans Saints, Kansas City Chiefs, Kansas City Royals, Baltimore Orioles, Pittsburgh Pirates, Detroit Lions, Tampa Bay Bucs, LA Clippers, LA Kings, Sacramento Kings. Some of those teams finally ended their long droughts, others are still mired in them. ... heck, the Toronto Maple Leafs are the most beloved team in that city and they haven't been successful in decades. Try getting a ticket to any Leafs game.

But poor us in Cincinnati, we hate our team and mock them and boycott the games of an exciting 7-4 playoff-contention team because we've only won two division titles in the last 20 years. Poor, poor us.

Jen35: Great post!
You should note that while the Reds have been no more successful than the Bengals in the last 20 years, and they have been the beneficiaries of a similar deal as the Bengals, they have managed to largely avoid the vitriol that has been aimed at the Bengals. Sure, fans get upset that the team hasn't won, but the Reds organization does a far superior job of ingratiating itself with the community...from the front office right down to the players on the field. The Reds have shown a greater commitment to community involvement, and more flexibility at the negotiating table. They have demonstrated a commitment to wanting to put the best product on the field possible, and are one of the best in baseball at creating a fun, family-oriented experience...everything from promotional events at games, to Redsfest, the Reds Hall of Fame and Museum, the Reds Caravan, player involvement in the community, and on and on. So, compare this post to my earlier one about the Bengals, and you'll see that it's nothing so shallow as wins and losses that has the city down on the Bengals. The organizations are perceived much differently because one is run like a pro organization that understands what its obligations are to the fans and the community, the other is run like a business that leaves the fans and the community feeling like they got screwed.
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