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Unread 01-10-2012, 07:34 AM
 
Location: In a happy place
2,925 posts, read 2,765,336 times
Reputation: 5775
Everyone has their own idea of what is convenient to them and that is how it should be. I am still waiting to sell our house before we can actually move into the area. Right now I am about an hours drive from Toledo and an hour from Ft. Wayne. For me, that is convenient enough to the downtowns of either of those and I am happy with that.

Now, before anyone says that it is the fact that they are Ft. Wayne and Toledo that make me feel that way, you are wrong. It is just the fact that my life has made me very content in areas away from the cities and I really have no desire to change.

A lifestyle that is right for some people is wrong for others, and that is good.

By the way, when we move, I would really like a lot of around 1/2 acre. I'm sure I won't find that in Cincinnati.
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Unread 01-10-2012, 07:49 AM
 
2,228 posts, read 1,720,577 times
Reputation: 1015
Quote:
Originally Posted by rrtechno View Post
...By the way, when we move, I would really like a lot of around 1/2 acre. I'm sure I won't find that in Cincinnati.
Such lots are not as unusual within the city limits as you might think, probably mostly due to the way Cincinnati was built up over decades with patchwork development on very hilly terrain. If you're thinking of a flat expanse of lawn, that might be tougher to find than a wooded hillside, but it's still not impossible.
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Unread 01-10-2012, 08:03 AM
Status: "Summer's Started" (set 14 days ago)
 
Location: Mason, OH
7,443 posts, read 4,983,170 times
Reputation: 1499
motorman... everything is relative

I have an older daughter who is living with me. She is currently employed with a company in Hebron Ky close to the airport. She says the normnal commute is 45 minutes. Of course there are abnormalities, car wrecks, ice, etc. Her boss also lives in Mason, and feels the relatively rare desturbances to travel are worth it. In his family condition he loves it here.

If it was just me, I would abhor a daily commute to downtown Cincy for a job. But that is just me.

I started out working in Norwood, living in Madeira. Then I moved to Mason, having found a larger house below what I could find in Madeira, Montgomery, or Blue Ash. The first few years, no problem, as once you passed Kenwood traffic was nil.

Of course things changed as the northern suburbs exploded. Mason is likely once of the best examples. When we first moved here, we had cows off of our backyard fence line.

I got extremely lucky as my company moved to Mason. We went Hallelujah, Hallelujah. as we were sure they would move to the Chicago area more central to the business center of the US. So I had many years both working and living in Mason.

Mason has a number of employers with well paying jobs. One of the best things Mason has. They are not a parasite on the economy. I will challenge anyone who states Mason is not not paying its own way.

There are a number of statistics Mason has worth paying attention to.
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Unread 01-10-2012, 12:14 PM
 
2,228 posts, read 1,720,577 times
Reputation: 1015
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Hall View Post
I could go on for much longer and I have every right to considering I've paid for some share of Mason through my taxes yet not benefitted from its existence in any way. Still, as our Lord said, do not cast your " pearls before swine."
Ugh. Yes, Matthew, your posts indeed paint a picture of a shining exemplar of Christian virtue. Thanks (not) for making the rest of us look really really bad.
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Unread 01-10-2012, 12:50 PM
Status: "Summer's Started" (set 14 days ago)
 
Location: Mason, OH
7,443 posts, read 4,983,170 times
Reputation: 1499
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Hall View Post
I could go on for much longer and I have every right to considering I've paid for some share of Mason through my taxes yet not benefitted from its existence in any way. Still, as our Lord said, do not cast your " pearls before swine."
More than one have asked and not received a response. So I will ask again, give us a specific example as to how your taxes are paying for Mason.

And if your only reply is via roads save your breath. The good citizens of Mason and all of the other suburbs are paying far more state sales and income taxes than the collective citizens of Ciincinnati and damn well better be receiving something for their money. And the gasoline tax for roads is what, about 10 times more value collected from the suburbs. So give us a break, who is paying for the roads, the suburbs are.
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Unread 01-12-2012, 01:22 PM
 
Location: A voice of truth, shouted down by fools.
1,086 posts, read 1,167,064 times
Reputation: 824
I think I understand where this Matthew guy is coming from based on his posts and links in his posts and I will attempt to paraphrase the narrative.

1) Suburbs/exurbs like Mason are wasteful to society in general due to sprawl and the externalized costs they impose on other segments of society.

2) Suburbs like Mason are exclusionary toward the lower incomes (his comment about $85,000). He wasn't seriously saying that these are undesirables, he's being heavily sarcastic. So obviously so that I wonder about thick minded people in this thread who take that as some harsh comment against poor people.

3) His comment about some of his taxes essentially paying for Mason. Well, consider the flight of upper middle classes to places like Mason. Meaning they don't become part of the tax base of the city. Which means that to support the city's infrastructure, the middle class that is left there must pay higher taxes than if the population were more diversified to the middle and upper classes. (Same thing has happened in Dayton, BTW.) So, in this way he is taxed "more" to support the core city that is the ENTIRE ECONOMIC REASON - and you are kidding yourselves if you do not agree with this - that Mason even exists at all as a suburb.

In all, this guy is saying (which I agree with) that places like Mason act as parasites of the core city. They benefit in all respects - low crime, homogeneous population that does not tax social services, and access to the job market and economy of Cincinnati - while drawing away resources and tax base and concentrating urban problems like poverty and joblessness in someone else's back yard.

The discussions on City-Data can be so lacking in clue. A dissenter has everything they state twisted.
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Unread 01-12-2012, 02:24 PM
 
2,228 posts, read 1,720,577 times
Reputation: 1015
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohioan58 View Post
I think I understand where this Matthew guy is coming from based on his posts and links in his posts and I will attempt to paraphrase the narrative.

1) Suburbs/exurbs like Mason are wasteful to society in general due to sprawl and the externalized costs they impose on other segments of society.

2) Suburbs like Mason are exclusionary toward the lower incomes (his comment about $85,000). He wasn't seriously saying that these are undesirables, he's being heavily sarcastic. So obviously so that I wonder about thick minded people in this thread who take that as some harsh comment against poor people.

3) His comment about some of his taxes essentially paying for Mason. Well, consider the flight of upper middle classes to places like Mason. Meaning they don't become part of the tax base of the city. Which means that to support the city's infrastructure, the middle class that is left there must pay higher taxes than if the population were more diversified to the middle and upper classes. (Same thing has happened in Dayton, BTW.) So, in this way he is taxed "more" to support the core city that is the ENTIRE ECONOMIC REASON - and you are kidding yourselves if you do not agree with this - that Mason even exists at all as a suburb.

In all, this guy is saying (which I agree with) that places like Mason act as parasites of the core city. They benefit in all respects - low crime, homogeneous population that does not tax social services, and access to the job market and economy of Cincinnati - while drawing away resources and tax base and concentrating urban problems like poverty and joblessness in someone else's back yard.

The discussions on City-Data can be so lacking in clue. A dissenter has everything they state twisted.
I don't think sprawl is good. It's hard to make any kind of compelling case for it at all. I think many people who live in the far suburbs might choose something different IF they had a viable alternative.

But Matthew is the same guy who told me recently that I should have to "fight for my interests" if I expected the city to repave my crumbling street before they take on costly new projects, and he was talking about a street that's 5 miles from the CBD. So you'll have to pardon me if I don't take him seriously. Really, it's not "in all, this guy is saying..." His postings reflect the parrot-like responses of somebody who lacks the ability to even begin to adequately assess the talking points he's latched onto. They're ill-articulated and have become extremely repetitive and tiresome.
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Unread 01-12-2012, 02:37 PM
Status: "Summer's Started" (set 14 days ago)
 
Location: Mason, OH
7,443 posts, read 4,983,170 times
Reputation: 1499
Ohioan58...

1) Suburbs/exurbs like Mason are wasteful to society in general due to sprawl and the externalized costs they impose on other segments of society.

I love that term externalized, just what the Hell does that mean? So the desire of people to live in Mason penalizes the citizens of Cincy due to the higher tax rates they have to pay to maintain what is left there?

Maybe you should both come and actually take a look around Mason. We have a reasonably sized post WWII development we call the Meadows. More modest houses you will likely not find. The people currently living there are taking advantage of one of the highest ranked school districts in the state. My wife and I, my brother and SIL are taking advantage of our terrific Municipal Center and its programs for senior citizens.

Yes, we do have quite a few very nice and family oriented subdivisions. And these families made a very determined reasoning why they decided to locate here. They knew coming in the taxes would be high, which they have elected to pay.

The difference is simply family, family, family, and safety, safety, safety.

Anyway you want to cut it, that is the difference.

So moan and groan all you want, but until the City offers something at least close to what suburbs like Mason, West Chester, Kings Mills, Loveland, Liberty Township offer to ordinary, hardworking, and concerned about their kids, people do, this trend is not going to change.

I just enjoy the elitist and other comments on the gentrification of OTR. Driving all of the lower income people out of the central City. And then you want to lambast Mason? What a Hypocritical approach!
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Unread 01-18-2012, 08:25 AM
 
465 posts, read 92,549 times
Reputation: 129
Here's a example even you might understand. If your neighbor paints his house and improves his lawn, it adds to the value of your neighboring property, even though you spent nothing. The neighbor improves the value of his own property to be sure, but he cannot hold all of the increase in value from his invesmtent fo himself. This is called an "externality" by economists. The same thing works on a larger scale. If cincinnati pays for the expenses that allow the cincinnati metro area to function economically, it gives value to all the surrounding areas. Cincinnati benefits to be sure, but so do the neighboring areas without having to pay for them. This another example of externalities. Externalities also work in reverse. Detroit is the textbook example. The suburbs launched a war against detroit refusing to pay anything that would have benefitted detroit in any way. Even though the suburbs invested in themselves, they continued to lose value as the negative externalities slowly deflated the value of suburban investment and detroit just melted away.

Mason wouldn't exist if cincinnati hadn't existed first. The value of property in Mason would collapse if cincinnati somehow suddenly dissappeared. Again, this is called externalities and Detroit proves it. Any more questions? So moan and groan all you want, but until mason and other areas pay their own way, we can endlessly criticize them for getting something for nothing. That is why the suburbs exist in the first place and it is perfectly understandable why someone wants to get something for nothing. but to suggest that this isnt' true and that some high principle of being more responsible or "hardworking" than others if baseless. We as a region and a nation can't afford to pay for this "trend" anymore. If fact this "trend" caused the great economic collapse in the first place. I enjoy the greedy, self-serving comments on the 'self-sustaining' wonders of mason, and they you lambast cincinnnati? What a hypocritical approach!
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Unread 01-18-2012, 08:38 AM
 
465 posts, read 92,549 times
Reputation: 129
I'm not surprised that you find my comments "tiresome" kj, you live in Mason. The reasons billions of private dollars have been invested in cincinnati in recent years in the face of an economic collapse is
profits, profits, profits, and the reason you live in mason is externalities, externalities, externalities. Anyway you cut it, you and everyone in mason is a freeloader.
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