Camp Dennison (Cincinnati, Euclid, Montgomery: real estate, credit, homes)

[GasSippr]

Wow great comments. Thanks for sharing SoFresh99!

[GasSippr]

I would like to visit Camp D again and try and meet some of the people there. I wonder if having a nice new home and decent cars, etc. would make it so that there was less of a boundary between you and the Indian Hill-Indian Hill kids...but then again they still see your neighbors living in rather run down homes and there is so much wealth in IH I don't know that anyone could cross that boundary that you (SoFresh99) speak of.

[wolden]

Most kids haven't yet formulated their own views. So they parrot their parents views. If their parents think living in IH is God's gift to the successful, then the kids will too. If the parents think living in IH makes them superior to the "lower class" then the kids will too.

If on the other hand the parents happen to believe that class distinctions are stupid and you should judge a person by his character and how they behave and think, then maybe the kids will too. Funny how much less common this point of view seems to be.

[SoFresh99]

Originally Posted by GasSippr

I would like to visit Camp D again and try and meet some of the people there. I wonder if having a nice new home and decent cars, etc. would make it so that there was less of a boundary between you and the Indian Hill-Indian Hill kids...but then again they still see your neighbors living in rather run down homes and there is so much wealth in IH I don't know that anyone could cross that boundary that you (SoFresh99) speak of.

To cross that boundary is be a reasonably attractive stellar male athlete (at something other than football), once you are that it's gravy. Football was not something that would get you respect on it's own however. Soccer, basketball, heck even tennis got your further than football.

For girls you had to be rich, even being hot got you no traction without the $$, and even being rich was no guarantee. Being a female athlete was worthless to popularity. For girls there is no magic "in" other than being reasonably attractive, wealthy enough to dress as they do and unkind enough to act as they do.

Indian Hill is the only place I have ever heard of where the cheerleaders were the routinely the lowest caste of the female population. When I tell people this they are dumbfounded.

[SoFresh99]

Originally Posted by wolden

Most kids haven't yet formulated their own views. So they parrot their parents views. If their parents think living in IH is God's gift to the successful, then the kids will too. If the parents think living in IH makes them superior to the "lower class" then the kids will too.

If on the other hand the parents happen to believe that class distinctions are stupid and you should judge a person by his character and how they behave and think, then maybe the kids will too. Funny how much less common this point of view seems to be.

I never knew many parents of Indian Hill-Indian Hill kids to be home at all to impart much of anything. Most of the rich kids were rudderless and left to their own devices.

[kjbrill]

SoFresh99... I am very disappointed to read your conclusions that even 60 years later the kids of Camp Dennison will be discriminated against. But frankly I am wondering about whether that is a real circumstance or a perceived backlash on your part for some past digression. I am not wanting to start a war here, but simply asking whether your tirades against Indian Hill are due to past personal disappointments. That I can thoroughly understand. My wife, while not overtly antagonistic, has never attended one of her Indian Hill school reunions, while we go to every one of mine, the most recent being the 50th. She simply tells me she relates to my classmates more than hers. But I know there is something deeper there.

[Sarah Perry]

Originally Posted by kjbrill

SoFresh99... I am very disappointed to read your conclusions that even 60 years later the kids of Camp Dennison will be discriminated against. But frankly I am wondering about whether that is a real circumstance or a perceived backlash on your part for some past digression. I am not wanting to start a war here, but simply asking whether your tirades against Indian Hill are due to past personal disappointments. That I can thoroughly understand. ...

With due respect, I didn't read the postings as tirades, just information from someone with experience in that school system. I speculated about it mostly because of the extreme stratification I experienced in my own high school, Colerain, back in the day when it drew its student body from a suburban, middle-class, single-race place--one that would have been much more economically homogenous than what we're talking about here.

Personally I believe this kind of behavior, while reprehensible, is pretty much ingrained in human nature.

[kjbrill]

Originally Posted by Sarah Perry

With due respect, I didn't read the postings as tirades, just information from someone with experience in that school system. I speculated about it mostly because of the extreme stratification I experienced in my own high school, Colerain, back in the day when it drew its student body from a suburban, middle-class, single-race place--one that would have been much more economically homogenous than what we're talking about here.

Personally I believe this kind of behavior, while reprehensible, is pretty much ingrained in human nature.

I still lament it. I remember one boy in particular from Camp Dennison who was valedictorian of his Indian Hill class and won a full ride scholarship to an eastern university. I am only aware of it since my wife's younger sister was going to Indian Hill at the time.

I guess I was just hoping that after 60 years and the breaking up of most of the huge Indian Hill estates due to the heirs not being able to afford to maintain them, that while still very well off the current population would be less class conscious. Apparently I am wrong.

[SoFresh99]

Originally Posted by kjbrill

I still lament it. I remember one boy in particular from Camp Dennison who was valedictorian of his Indian Hill class and won a full ride scholarship to an eastern university. I am only aware of it since my wife's younger sister was going to Indian Hill at the time.

I guess I was just hoping that after 60 years and the breaking up of most of the huge Indian Hill estates due to the heirs not being able to afford to maintain them, that while still very well off the current population would be less class conscious. Apparently I am wrong.

My last data point is my sister who graduated in 2000, my mom doesn't recall this in her day (60's) but by the time my stepfather graduated in the 70s "Camp D" was looked down upon and that has lasted through my 3 sisters, 4 uncles, 1 aunt and 3 cousins who have gone through Indian Hill.

This is not to say that the hurdle of being from "Camp D" prevents you from having a successful social and academic experience, just that you probably won't be a member of the IN-crowd, and you will be made aware of this every moment of every day until you are old enough not to care anymore. I was a member of that crowd. I can testify to the level of bigotry and classism that I was under pressure to conform to in my actions and words, until I decided to be part of the solution rather than part of the problem.

The question for the OP is whether or not the prejudice that remains outweighs the benefits of the IH academic offerings. That I can't answer without knowing how the current state of academics compares with what is on offer in Mariemont or Madeira. I can tell you that my DH who went to Boston Latin is envious of my IH academic experience and the opportunities that were on offer 30 year ago, I assume that it is more/better/faster now.

OTOH I can also tell you that my youngest sister who is a complete product of IH in the way that I am not, and toe'd the party line in every breath and outfit she wore, has chosen to move to Madeira over IH because all she could afford in IH was Kenwood or Camp D. Ironic that her 13 years of indoctrination in prejudice at IH have left her certain that she would never, ever live in Kenwood or Camp D- even if that means that her kids have to go to Madeira. So she bought the same type of tiny house we lived in in Kenwood, but in Madeira, and that makes her feel much better.

[GasSippr]

I should add that 3 of my 4 kids already go to Indian Hill Primary and have friends there (mostly, probably all, from Kenwood). They also already know most of the kids in the school. They won't be like the new kids on the block, from "Camp D." At this age I don't think the kids care anyways who lives where. What I worry about is when they get into middle and high school. My wife and I both love IH academics though I'm not sure how they compare to Madeira. I do know they offer spanish starting in 1st grade! Still undecided :-)