The Roman Catholic Church In Cincinnati

[CarpathianPeasant]

Originally Posted by green_mariner

It is happening in Atlanta too. What does it have to do with Moeller High School?

I didn't know the topic had been reduced to Moeller high school.

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by CarpathianPeasant

I didn't know the topic had been reduced to Moeller high school.

I wasn't trying to. We were talking about the influence of the Catholic Church on Cincinnati. I started talking about the Catholic school system. The school I know best in Cincinnati is Archbishop Moeller High because Ken Griffey Jr went there.

[kjbrill]

Originally Posted by CarpathianPeasant

I didn't know the topic had been reduced to Moeller high school.

No, and don't get so sensitive about it. Some of what has been contributed to Cincinnati as a City has been the athletes the GCL has contributed. Ken Griffey Jr., Barry Larkin, and Roger Staubach are just a few of many examples.

Many years ago, my uncle was a 4-year letterman at Purcell. Back then, freshmen did not play varsity. But early in the year their running back went down with a season ending injury, so my uncle was promoted to varsity, because as a small school there was noone else. After that, they went 3 years undefeated, and my uncle, Don Brill was City scoring champ for most of that time. At the end of his Purcell career, the coach, Ed Kluska was hired to coach the Xavier football team. Most people assumed my uncle would follow his coach to Xavier.

But then grandpa stepped in. Don was also recruited by Notre Dame and some other large schools. Grandpa asked who is going to guarantee your college scholarship regardless? There was only one, UC. Grandpa said that is where you are going. As it turned out, Don blew out his knee in Freshmen practice. I believe he got into about two games for a few downs as a senior. He was elected to the Buddy LaRosa High School Hall of Fame.

As is reasonable, Don is a little bitter about his football career. The old Could Have Been, Might have Been, syndrome.

But that is athletics, kind of like a throw of the dice, nothing guaranteed.

[CarpathianPeasant]

Originally Posted by kjbrill

No, and don't get so sensitive about it. Some of what has been contributed to Cincinnati as a City has been the athletes the GCL has contributed. Ken Griffey Jr., Barry Larkin, and Roger Staubach are just a few of many examples.

Many years ago, my uncle was a 4-year letterman at Purcell. Back then, freshmen did not play varsity. But early in the year their running back went down with a season ending injury, so my uncle was promoted to varsity, because as a small school there was noone else. After that, they went 3 years undefeated, and my uncle, Don Brill was City scoring champ for most of that time. At the end of his Purcell career, the coach, Ed Kluska was hired to coach the Xavier football team. Most people assumed my uncle would follow his coach to Xavier.

But then grandpa stepped in. Don was also recruited by Notre Dame and some other large schools. Grandpa asked who is going to guarantee your college scholarship regardless? There was only one, UC. Grandpa said that is where you are going. As it turned out, Don blew out his knee in Freshmen practice. I believe he got into about two games for a few downs as a senior. He was elected to the Buddy LaRosa High School Hall of Fame.

As is reasonable, Don is a little bitter about his football career. The old Could Have Been, Might have Been, syndrome.

But that is athletics, kind of like a throw of the dice, nothing guaranteed.

Public schools have famous athletes. So do Baptist schools, Jewish schools (I'm sure there are Jewish schools somewhere), etc., so I don't see that as any particular kind of impact.

[Now, let's see, what was that guy's name? Faust. Yeah. Gerry Faust. Brother to (I don't remember for sure how she spelled it) Marilee. Poor Marilee, still called to uphold the Faust name 60 years later.... I wonder where Gerry is these days? Any ideas? Gee whiz.... Both of them so capable of insightful comments if the situation warranted it, you always kind of wished you knew them better....]

I would say the the absence of the Catholic outlook among middle class black Americans (there are such things, even if many of the men have worked for the government rather than corporate America) has had a resounding impact on established communities heavily populated by whites trying to sell fish on Fridays ... for reasons such as gradually there was less market for the fish before it was okay to make it a hamburger, leading to things like how would the athletic department make money for uniforms...?

Sounds like grandpa was a pretty sharp cookie, Mr. kjbrill, while the ability was not exactly inherited.

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by CarpathianPeasant

Public schools have famous athletes. So do Baptist schools, Jewish schools (I'm sure there are Jewish schools somewhere), etc., so I don't see that as any particular kind of impact.

[Now, let's see, what was that guy's name? Faust. Yeah. Gerry Faust. Brother to (I don't remember for sure how she spelled it) Marilee. Poor Marilee, still called to uphold the Faust name 60 years later.... I wonder where Gerry is these days? Any ideas? Gee whiz.... Both of them so capable of insightful comments if the situation warranted it, you always kind of wished you knew them better....]

I would say the the absence of the Catholic outlook among middle class black Americans (there are such things, even if many of the men have worked for the government rather than corporate America) has had a resounding impact on established communities heavily populated by whites trying to sell fish on Fridays ... for reasons such as gradually there was less market for the fish before it was okay to make it a hamburger, leading to things like how would the athletic department make money for uniforms...?

Sounds like grandpa was a pretty sharp cookie, Mr. kjbrill, while the ability was not exactly inherited.

But the question is why is white flight happening at all whenever middle class Blacks move in?

I only asked about Ken Griffey Jr. being a Catholic because being a Black American who happens to be Catholic, and knowing Griffey grew up around Cincinnati, it might have given me something more to relate to, as I know there aren't many Blacks who are Catholic(at least in America).

Now as for fish fries, this is how it works where my parish is at. More Blacks have moved in, and most aren't Catholic. However, alot of Nigerians have moved to the Atlanta area, and many are Catholic. Perhaps this is a question of why Blacks are more likely to be Catholic outside of the USA as oppose to the USA.

[kjbrill]

Originally Posted by green_mariner

But the question is why is white flight happening at all whenever middle class Blacks move in?

I only asked about Ken Griffey Jr. being a Catholic because being a Black American who happens to be Catholic, and knowing Griffey grew up around Cincinnati, it might have given me something more to relate to, as I know there aren't many Blacks who are Catholic(at least in America).

Now as for fish fries, this is how it works where my parish is at. More Blacks have moved in, and most aren't Catholic. However, alot of Nigerians have moved to the Atlanta area, and many are Catholic. Perhaps this is a question of why Blacks are more likely to be Catholic outside of the USA as oppose to the USA.

In the neighborhood I live in, I see do not see white flight occuring as middle class blacks move in, and it is definitely on the increase. The prevailing attitude I see is if they can afford a home in this area I don't believe we have a major difference in either attitude or living style.

This is a decided difference from when I first moved here 37 years ago and it was a small farming community, and the then residents let it be known in short order blacks were not welcome, or any other race for that matter. But the city has expanded so rapidly with people moving in from all over the old ways have collapsed. The newcomers realized they needed to extend a hand to the other newcomers to achieve the peaceful existence they moved here for. I am happy to say today the population diversity is much improved. Whites still dominate, but others are increasing constantly. And it brings a smile to my face to be out in the neighborhood and see these other nationalities, races, whatever out walking around with their kids and appearing to be enjoying themselves.

Recently, David Fulcher Jr, son of the former Bengal, starred for the Mason Football Team. Anthony Munoz's daughter Michelle also starred for the Mason Girl's Basketball Team, leading them to the state tourney several times. His son, Michael played football for Moeller, and then was an All-American at University of Tennessee.

And it is not just Pro Sports Figures who are moving in. Just plain every day people desiring a good quality of life and schools for their kids are the ones coming here.

But to get back more on topic. I have met several people from Ethiopia. I understand from them Ethiopia is a predominantly Christian country. But the majority are classified as Ethiopian Eastern Orthodox. Am I right in assuming this is part of the Eastern Orthodox Catholic Church, which split off from Rome in about AD 476 when the Roman Empire collapsed but the eastern part continued under Constantinople. This is a perfect example as to how intermingled church and state were at that time.

[Sarah Perry]

Originally Posted by kjbrill

...But to get back more on topic. I have met several people from Ethiopia. I understand from them Ethiopia is a predominantly Christian country. But the majority are classified as Ethiopian Eastern Orthodox. Am I right in assuming this is part of the Eastern Orthodox Catholic Church, which split off from Rome in about AD 476 when the Roman Empire collapsed but the eastern part continued under Constantinople. This is a perfect example as to how intermingled church and state were at that time.

About 2/3 of the Ethopian population is Christian, and the vast majority of those are Ethopian Orthodox. Ethopian without the "Eastern," because the Ethopian church is part of the Oriental Orthodox Church.

From Wikipedia: "The Oriental Orthodox Churches, which today include the Coptic Orthodox Church of Alexandria, the Armenian Apostolic Church, the Syriac Orthodox Church, the Malankara Orthodox Church of India, the Ethiopian Orthodox Church, and the Eritrean Orthodox Tewahedo Church, are referred to as 'Non-Chalcedonian', and, sometimes by outsiders as 'monophysite' (meaning 'One Single Nature', in reference to Christ). However, these Churches themselves describe their Christology as miaphysite (meaning 'One United Nature', in reference to Christ; the translation of the word 'Tewahedo')."

[kjbrill]

Originally Posted by Sarah Perry

About 2/3 of the Ethopian population is Christian, and the vast majority of those are Ethopian Orthodox. Ethopian without the "Eastern," because the Ethopian church is part of the Oriental Orthodox Church.

From Wikipedia: "The Oriental Orthodox Churches, which today include the Coptic Orthodox Church of Alexandria, the Armenian Apostolic Church, the Syriac Orthodox Church, the Malankara Orthodox Church of India, the Ethiopian Orthodox Church, and the Eritrean Orthodox Tewahedo Church, are referred to as 'Non-Chalcedonian', and, sometimes by outsiders as 'monophysite' (meaning 'One Single Nature', in reference to Christ). However, these Churches themselves describe their Christology as miaphysite (meaning 'One United Nature', in reference to Christ; the translation of the word 'Tewahedo')."

Thanks Sarah... I might get up enough energy to pursue that further, although it sounds a bit confusing. I did note in one reference I looked up that over the last 10 year period the Ethiopian Orthodox was said to have reduced by 7% while just Christian Protestant increased by over 10%.

[CarpathianPeasant]

Originally Posted by kjbrill

In the neighborhood I live in, I see do not see white flight occuring as middle class blacks move in, and it is definitely on the increase. The prevailing attitude I see is if they can afford a home in this area I don't believe we have a major difference in either attitude or living style.

Depending on how you figure it, I've lived through four or five "integrations."

Item 1: They're all different. Item 2: You have to be on guard for the individual who is going to come along and gum up the works.

Cincinnati does have racial tension.

[Zen_master]

Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81

As well they should. The diocese has made a horrible mess of the institution.

Can't that be said for the Catholic Church as a whole? Western society by and large is becoming more secular culturally. I don't know that declining numbers can be blamed on the clergy.

Either way, the Diocese is strong in Cincinnati with its myriad parochial high schools rivaled in America only by St Louis.