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Old 07-21-2012, 06:35 AM
 
Location: Mason, OH
8,705 posts, read 6,555,243 times
Reputation: 1701
Beaconowner... Sounds a little naive to me. Who is going to do this counseling, and why should the kid listen? The money he was making illegally dwarfs anything a counselor is going to get across to him. What is he to respond to, God and community?

BTW the 6 adults accused in this bust were all arraigned in court Friday. Every one of them pleaded innocent. 2 are husband and wife from Norwood. Their lawyer argued for a lower bail amount for the wife since they have 5 kids at home she is responsible for and the husband will likely not be able to make his bail, this was granted. One guy from Hamilton made his bail immediately and was released. Our local media reports the Hamilton person is the son of the Hamilton City Schools Superintendant and is expected to have additional charges filed against him in connection with a Warren County wide drug ring. Did you see the photos of the pot growing operation? So where does the not guilty come from? Do you receive a lesser sentence from being proven guilty rather than admitting guilt?

The kid who triggered all of this publicity will not be arraigned until July 31, and it will be as a juvenile. Until then he is not being confined. WTF is going on here? It is summer, school is not in session. So why is he not cooling his heels in confinement somewhere? At least give him a taste of what it feels like.

This argument about 18-yr olds going off to war but not being adult enough to purchase a drink versus someone under 18 running a complex criminal enterprise and being called a juvenile needs to change.

I will not be satisfied until I see his parents also indicated, if for no other reasons than perceived indifference and gross stupidity. If you can obliquely go along and claim no knowledge of what was going on, you are completely disengaged.

I also have some degree of compassion for the youth and their predicaments. But when it results from kids from what are called privileged neighborhoods, no thanks! These kids have something just gone wrong in their upbringing. If their parents are too pre-occupied from giving good direction, I say indict the parents! That should bring a rise out of somebody.
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Old 07-21-2012, 06:07 PM
 
1,427 posts, read 1,336,119 times
Reputation: 788
having grown up in the Toledo suburbs but attending Toledo Public Schools (parents said and i quote i needed to be "cultured" haha) i can say in 4 years of attending an urban high school not once was i ever offered drugs or even heard the words marijuana, crack, etc.. mentioned. the ONE time was freshman year when one of my really and i mean really dumb friends bought a bag of oregano off a kid and actually smoked the whole bag. all the times i was ever offered drugs or heard about drug use was in the burbs from kids whose parents were in high positions of power and prestige. one of my buddies, both his parents were high school principals, lived in a HUGE house, etc... use to drive around with bags of stuff in his "beemer" and even had coffee cans of stash in his bedroom.
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Old 07-22-2012, 07:28 AM
 
Location: Mason, OH
8,705 posts, read 6,555,243 times
Reputation: 1701
I do agree kids from more affluent neighborhoods are often involved in the drug scene. They desire the kick from getting away with something. It is more of a game with them.

The ones we hear about concentrated in poorer neighborhoods are much more dangerous from a practical view. There it is staking out territory and daring someone else from attempting to do business in it. This is why we frequently hear of murders, etc. over the fight for territory.

Just look at the situation in Mexico and along our border with Mexico. Some of the reports out of there are horrendous. Competing drug cartels warring with each other and also any citizens they deem may be working with the authorities against them. As long as the drug trade holds out the opportunity for big profits these atrocities will exist.

As for the comments on the incarceration rate in the US, yes it is the highest in the world. I attribute that to the fact our police force is the best and least corrupt in the world. But I would like to see a return to the situation where inmates have to earn their right to even be in jail. That is productive work for the public good in return for the right to be fed, no work no food. One guard with an AK-47 should be able to control 50-60 prisoners with ease. You bleeding-hearts who feel I am promoting inhumane treatment - no way. I am simply promoting realistic control of our prison situation.

We employ private companies to go and engage in the territories where we are at war. Stop that, it is a tremendous waste of money. Hire these same companies to take over control of our prison system and determine how to put these inmates to work. Put them on an incentive system, the more saved by their work/profit endeavors the higher their profits and I will guarantee we will see some miraculous turnarounds.
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Old 07-22-2012, 04:03 PM
 
Location: A voice of truth, shouted down by fools.
1,086 posts, read 1,350,843 times
Reputation: 842
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjbrill View Post
As for the comments on the incarceration rate in the US, yes it is the highest in the world. I attribute that to the fact our police force is the best and least corrupt in the world.
I see it as a continuation of "Jim Crow" racial division policies. A good portion of the black population is lost to, and in, the prison system.

No, I don't buy that it's a symbol of excellence.

The US is the most morally anal country on earth. Smoke or deal pot, go to jail, scumbag. We imprison people who are not morally pure. More than Rwanda and more than Russia. We are in the worst possible company in this dimension.

Quote:
Hire these same companies to take over control of our prison system and determine how to put these inmates to work. Put them on an incentive system, the more saved by their work/profit endeavors the higher their profits and I will guarantee we will see some miraculous turnarounds.
Great, a slave population competing against normal citizens during a horrible economic downturn.
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Old 07-22-2012, 04:34 PM
 
Location: Mason, OH
8,705 posts, read 6,555,243 times
Reputation: 1701
Just like the illegal immigrant argument, put the prisoners to work doing jobs nobody else wants to do. Isn't that what we constantly hear relative to the illegal immigrants? They are here because US citizens will not do the work. So put the prisoners at work in these jobs and export the illegal immigrants back home. But I guess that sounds too simple for the do-gooders.
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Old 07-22-2012, 06:05 PM
 
724 posts, read 419,139 times
Reputation: 909
Default Yes, I guess I'm the naive one...

Quote:
Originally Posted by kjbrill View Post
Beaconowner... Sounds a little naive to me. Who is going to do this counseling, and why should the kid listen? The money he was making illegally dwarfs anything a counselor is going to get across to him. What is he to respond to, God and community?

BTW the 6 adults accused in this bust were all arraigned in court Friday. Every one of them pleaded innocent. 2 are husband and wife from Norwood. Their lawyer argued for a lower bail amount for the wife since they have 5 kids at home she is responsible for and the husband will likely not be able to make his bail, this was granted. One guy from Hamilton made his bail immediately and was released. Our local media reports the Hamilton person is the son of the Hamilton City Schools Superintendant and is expected to have additional charges filed against him in connection with a Warren County wide drug ring. Did you see the photos of the pot growing operation? So where does the not guilty come from? Do you receive a lesser sentence from being proven guilty rather than admitting guilt?

The kid who triggered all of this publicity will not be arraigned until July 31, and it will be as a juvenile. Until then he is not being confined. WTF is going on here? It is summer, school is not in session. So why is he not cooling his heels in confinement somewhere? At least give him a taste of what it feels like.

This argument about 18-yr olds going off to war but not being adult enough to purchase a drink versus someone under 18 running a complex criminal enterprise and being called a juvenile needs to change.

I will not be satisfied until I see his parents also indicated, if for no other reasons than perceived indifference and gross stupidity. If you can obliquely go along and claim no knowledge of what was going on, you are completely disengaged.

I also have some degree of compassion for the youth and their predicaments. But when it results from kids from what are called privileged neighborhoods, no thanks! These kids have something just gone wrong in their upbringing. If their parents are too pre-occupied from giving good direction, I say indict the parents! That should bring a rise out of somebody.
This boy is lucky, he has two parents, they have money, which buys "justice" in America. He can go to private counseling. He is not confined because he is not a flight risk, and he is not a danger to anyone. Let's save our tax dollars for people that really do need to be confined, dangerous and violent people.

I agree, if we didn't send our youth off to war and sent the adults who vote for war instead, maybe there would be less useless wars with undefined goals. Then our youth would be alive to enjoy that beer.

I don't see any compassion in your writings, all I see is a desire for punishment, but no redemption or re-direction to the right path, just ruin his life with a felony conviction.

You said, "What is he to respond to, God and community?" I say, it's a good start!!!!!
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Old 07-23-2012, 08:52 AM
 
573 posts, read 232,815 times
Reputation: 361
While I think its good to debate about this one particular case, I think the systemic problem its more indicative of is more pertinent. In the suburban high schools of Cincinnati, as in most places I'd imagine, it is just as easy, if not easier, to get marijuana compared to alcohol, while it is certainly not thrown in kids faces, if you want it you know how to get it. How to fix this is the main issue I see here.

The kid should be tried as a juvenile. He is 17. If he's 18 different story. But the law is the law. To circumvent it simply erodes the liberty of all.
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Old 07-23-2012, 10:13 AM
 
2,435 posts, read 5,505,605 times
Reputation: 2944
Well, they charge juveniles as adults all the time actually. Its at the discretion of the prosecutor.

And - as far as counseling etc.. I think that's a great idea. What negates him from receiving that by being charged as an adult?

For all I care, charge him as an adult and sentence him to 6 months in JAIL (not maximum security state prison) and then 5 years probation. But it will be an actual consequence.

Juvie - where he will no doubt say "I was a good kid who was led astray" will do nothing and he will be right back to making fast money illegally when he is done with juvie.

Also, depending on the deal - with a juvenile crime often the records are sealed. So if he re offends in a year or two, they will not be able to charge him with a "pattern".

And I'm not for ruining his life. I don't want him locked up for 50 years, it was a non-violent crime. The penalty (adult) should not be that severe. But juvie is a slap on the wrist, and most likely the defendant knows it.

Whatever. Like I said, yay warren county!
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