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What about the other kids, the ones who have been shoved out of formerly affordable and now-trendy neighborhoods, the ones who can't or don't or their parents won't help them get into the high-performing magnet schools, or the ones who don't qualify for scholarships to private schools?
I recently looked into changes in my old neighborhoods in Queens - Long Island City and Astoria. I was appalled at how trendy they had become, trendy and unaffordable. Plus, the scumbag real estate brokers came up with something called the 40x rule. They want you to make 40 times the rent, with verifiable income, and credit checks before they will rent to people. Not to mention most of them want FICO scores above 700. They have made securing a lease on par with qualifying for a mortgage.
What used to be working class neighborhoods are now loaded with yuppies who can afford the new demands from renters. End result is just what you described. Hardworking people forced into other less desirable area (desirable in terms of amenities) that makes their already hard lives harder. You make some good points. Will downtown Cincinnati be immune from such things in the future?
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Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81
That's why I made the comment about improving the school system overall. There's a lot of work to be done by CPS, and until the school district makes significant progress in all of its neighborhood schools, not just the magnet schools with great test scores or the schools in more affluent neighborhoods, to the point where Oyler Elementary is just as good as Kilgour Elementary, the city schools vs. suburban schools will always be an issue for residents.
Why are CPS schools so lopsided in performance? How much blame rests on uncaring parents or neighborhoods where a majority of the residents are apathetic? I would wager that very few children ever develop the desire to excel in education when they have uncaring parents. So the cycle of generational poverty continues.
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Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81
Or are we more interested in attracting bright, educated adults (with money) to the city, and more interested in educating their bright, college-bound offspring?
Well, I am interested in educating my son and making sure he has the best chance in life. He will be in CPS until we move from Cincinnati at some point in the future. When we do move it will be back to a much larger city. I have navigated NYC school district, LA school district and now Cincinnati. People have it better in Cincinnati than what they realize.
I think it kind of illustrates that the problem isn't really the schools so much as the folks attending them not valuing education enough - if there was more of culture of education the city schools would be better, and in Chicago's case they are getting better as the city gentrifies and more people send their kids to the schools who under different economic circumstances would be in the suburbs.
Still would be scary to be one of those parents caught with a condo and school aged kids. I hope they are trailblazers to make the city more livable for all.
I think it kind of illustrates that the problem isn't really the schools so much as the folks attending them not valuing education enough
I agree. Thus my point with Olney in Lower Price Hill. Parents don't care and it reflects in the schools.
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Originally Posted by neilworms2
in Chicago's case they are getting better as the city gentrifies and more people send their kids to the schools who under different economic circumstances would be in the suburbs.
When I was there in 2004 gentrification in the South Side was in full swing well into the 40s. Did this continue? or stall?
And that was one of the points made in the article on Philly. A lot of parents are not leaving for better schools at the expense of their preferred lifestyle. Heck, I fall into this category. I would rather navigate the mine fields of a large public education system than live someplace my wife and I don't enjoy, or where there is less for my son to experience at the expense of higher rated schools. In the end, educational success rests in parents hands and their willingness to involve themselves in their child's education. IMO.
When I was there in 2004 gentrification in the South Side was in full swing well into the 40s. Did this continue? or stall?
It stalled a bit, since I've have a friend in the South Loop that I've been visiting since before I lived in Chicago 2002 at earliest, the whole area has continued to improve since 2004, though south of Chinatown gets more and more sketchy. The big thing going on in that part of town now is neighborhood amenities really starting to take hold - a few years ago there was practically nothing there, now more and more shops and restuarants are opening up. I think long term the gentrification will spread south to meet up with the stable UofChicago neighborhood of Hyde Park - there is only about a 20 block gap right now where it gets really bad. Another good sign is that there is going to be a much needed new station at Cermak on the Green line - its a bit south of where the neighborhood is solid and fully developed which ends at 18th street, but it should encourage it go further south.
Even Chinatown is no longer seedy, and its been developing higher end dining options (still cheap, but remodeled and catering more to an affluent audience that lives nearby).
Ohiogirl, just below your words is what you are actually saying: You want poor people to stay concentrated in the city so that a)you don't have to deal with them and b)you get to keep telling the city what "it needs to do". That's the way it's worked for the past 50 years, but that is changing because of the Section 8 vouchers. That is a federal program, not something exclusive to and funded by the City of Cincinnati, so do not blame the city for poor people showing up on your street.
Well, I am interested in educating my son and making sure he has the best chance in life. He will be in CPS until we move from Cincinnati at some point in the future. When we do move it will be back to a much larger city. I have navigated NYC school district, LA school district and now Cincinnati. People have it better in Cincinnati than what they realize.
Thus my point with Olney in Lower Price Hill. Parents don't care and it reflects in the schools.
But why should the kids have to suffer because their parents are too busy earning a living, just don't care or value education, or [insert favorite stereotypical activity here]? If the educational opportunities at Oyler are equal in quality and quantity as at Kilgour, parental involvement wouldn't make that much of a difference.
But it isn't.
Or, to use the Philadelphia example, if every elementary school in Philadelphia had Penn's resources behind them, a high quality neighborhood school wouldn't be such a novelty.
But instead, in Cincinnati and Philadelphia, you've got inequality in the quality of schools -- at all levels, but especially at the neighborhood elementary schools in less affluent neighborhoods -- and, combined with the inaction of parents, especially in poorer neighborhoods, the kids at those neighborhood elementary schools are at a disadvantage from their first day of kindergarten.
But why should the kids have to suffer because their parents are too busy earning a living, just don't care or value education, or [insert favorite stereotypical activity here]? If the educational opportunities at Oyler are equal in quality and quantity as at Kilgour, parental involvement wouldn't make that much of a difference.
But it isn't.
Or, to use the Philadelphia example, if every elementary school in Philadelphia had Penn's resources behind them, a high quality neighborhood school wouldn't be such a novelty.
But instead, in Cincinnati and Philadelphia, you've got inequality in the quality of schools -- at all levels, but especially at the neighborhood elementary schools in less affluent neighborhoods -- and, combined with the inaction of parents, especially in poorer neighborhoods, the kids at those neighborhood elementary schools are at a disadvantage from their first day of kindergarten.
This is sadly true of every city district I know. I have to say, I live in Boston now, and I watch first hand what Boston and Cambridge do to bridge these gaps and CPS is LIGHT YEARS ahead of anything going on here to address this problem. From what I can see from here CPS has implemented LDCs that are actually working and is incredibly progressive in adding the social welfare component to its bag of tricks. The residents of Cambridge and Boston would hack each other to pieces to have neighborhood Montessori options, or even magnet Montessori options. The Arts magnet here is a joke and has been shuffled around to three buildings in three years and has no arts community tie-in or support.
Boston buses the kids to heck and back and uses a lottery system to assign kids randomly to elementary school within their geographic zone (these are crow-flies zones, so yes your 5yo will be expected to traverse a river and sometimes part of the ocean to get to school, only a couple miles as the crow flies but possibly 10 driving miles since you can't fly). There are 1 or 2 "good" elementary schools and if you don't get into one (you need to try to get a preschool slot at 3 and then again at 4 to get guaranteed a slot for kindergarten and the preschoolers fill all the kindergarten slots available) you move out. There are no lines to wait in, nor neighborhoods to move to that help one's chances. Scores are routinely so abysmal at the high school level (barring the obvious magnet Boston Latin that drains the smart kids from the system) that drastic changes are made YEARLY to the curriculum and organization of the schools in hopes of seeing some immediate change.
As a freshman you may enter a "magnet" HS program and by your senior year it may have changed it's magnet focus, AND moved to the block system AND added extended mandatory day hours AND moved to a different building, AND gotten a different name and all of your teachers will have moved elsewhere. No recipe for success there.
All this is to say that I think that CPS is on the right track.
I obviously have no first-hand knowledge of CPS schools, having never lived there. So I only know what I read and hear. The sources repeatedly state the quality of education varies within the district. What I don't understand is why. I would think the expenditure per pupil for a given grade level must be the same throughout the district. This in turn should pay for an equal capability of teacher, same curriculum, same capability of administrators, etc. To me anything else should be unconstitutional and challenged in court.
I do understand the difference parental interest and guidance can cause. We always told our kids if there was a problem at school our first assumption was the school was right and they were wrong. If they felt otherwise be prepared to prove their case as in this circumstance they were considered guilty until proven innocent. And Oh-By-The-Way we expect good grades, and if you don't get them be prepared once again to defend why. And again if the only thing you can come up with is the teacher does not like me or similar lame excuses, once again assumed guilty until proven innocent.
We would attend parent-teacher conferences to get a first-hand information on participation. This was mainly my wife who was a stay-at-home mom. Again, the kids knew if anything bad came out of this they were the first to be called on the carpet. But we did not believe in family homework sessions. They were the student and expected to put in the work to complete their own home studies. Of course, if they were stuck on a particular item we were available for guidance. Again they were frustrated when we did not just give them the answer but guide them toward where they could find the answer. Give them the answer and tomorrow it is forgotten, require them to find the answer and they remember. My specialty was always math - remember the dreaded word problems? To me they were always simple applied logic and deduction from the stated facts plus a few math skills. But students would freeze when presented with one and just give up.
I attribute our attitude toward the schools as the reason why we had very few incidents of problem, and our 4 kids have all done well and gone on to get college degrees.
This dates back to my upbringing in Madeira. My dad had an old fashioned leather razor strap hanging on a hook on our back door to the basement. He let it be known in no uncertain terms if I was punished at school and he found out it would be double at home. Again, guilty until proved innocent. The punishment comes first, the guilt later.
When I was in the 8th grade, I had a woodshop course. Being one of the teacher's pets, yes I always strived for this position reaped dividends, I was assigned the job of using a drill press to perforate a new paddle with a lot of holes. This was back in the era when corporal punishment was still permitted in the schools. I strongly desire to return to that era.
By perforating the paddle with holes, you cut down on both the wind resistence and the thrust when the paddle made contact, but it produced a sting you will not forget. Little round red welts all over you know what.
But to get back to my original statement. Why are the CPS schools so divided with respect to their compentency?
I will offer up my opinion. They have been using every means at their disposal to conjure up Magnet Schools, Montessori Schools, and the like to circumvent the established district. This is a practice which is prejudicial and in my opinion unconstitutional. The CPS needs to be taken to court to require them to offer the same leval of education to every child in the district.
Yes I do not live there, but I can still express my opinion concerning those which are being forced out of the loop.
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