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Old 10-21-2012, 02:33 PM
 
Location: Philaburbia
31,216 posts, read 57,353,566 times
Reputation: 52079

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I think the idea of fear of the future, which may be more like a low-simmering uncertainty, is valid in a some small way. All you have to do is read some of the Baby Boomer-bashing threads on these very forums to discover that there are quite a few 20-somethings who resent their parents' generation for working up until and even beyond age 65. They resent having to contribute toward Medicare and Social Security because they're sure they won't benefit from it. They resent the fact that their parents benefited from relatively inexpensive college educations. They accuse their parents of everything from running up the national debt and having to start out at the bottom of the career ladder to the cost of an iPhone and the fact that their parents are spending what they presumed would be their inheritance.

So, yes, there is some uncertainty for the future, and rightfully so, because the economic future of the country is uncertain -- pretty much as it has been since the 1970s' oil embargo and the collapse of manufacturing. I wasn't all that hopeful when I graduated from college in 1981, either. So how does that translate into everyday life? The 20-somethings I work with don't buy cars (the cost of insurance is stifling here), they rent apartments with roommates. They need to be close to public transportation and places to buy everyday needs. To do all that requires urban living (although in larger cities you can get that in some 'burbs, too). And while urban living is a preference for some, there's still some economic motivation behind it.

More power to 'em; it's good to see many cities rebounding from the horrid urban renewal policies of the 50s and 60s. But whether that trend continues in the same age group is yet to be seen; they very well may take the suburban route when it comes time to educate their children and, at that point, younger people will take their place.

All generations rebel against their parents' way of life ... for awhile. Ah, the circle of life ...
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Old 10-21-2012, 02:36 PM
 
1,556 posts, read 1,463,978 times
Reputation: 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomJones123 View Post
NYC has entire industries housed within it's city limits. If you think all NYC has going for it is Wall Street, then you really know next to nothing about NYC. Boston is also a union town. You really don't get it, but you would if you took off the socio/economic glasses and read the links I posted. Cities all across the nation are growing again, and some are notably outpacing their suburbs in population growth for the first time in years.

I think in particular, Cleveland and Cincinnati have slowed population loss and will start gaining again from whats happening in their urban cores.
I didn't say all NYC has going for it is Wall Street, I said Wall Street powers NYC, and Wall Street bonuses and employment growth guide its future. Everything feeds off Wall Street; restaurants, tailors, limo drivers, airports, real estate, etc. etc. And sorry, but your links are from incredibly biased sources, and I don't take them seriously.

I'm excited the cities are growing. It's great news and I hope it continues. They have been laggards for too long. Their growth can only be seen as a positive for suburbians. However, I have great concern and doubt about the futures of the big cities in the East, Midwest and California unless the federal government bails them out with a stimulus package. Do you honestly think Cinci can support its future pension obligations? What happens if it can't?
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Old 10-21-2012, 02:40 PM
 
Location: Cincinnati
4,007 posts, read 4,831,178 times
Reputation: 924
Quote:
Originally Posted by flashes1 View Post
And sorry, but your links are from incredibly biased sources, and I don't take them seriously.
Right. Why would you take them serious? They are only based on census data.
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Old 10-21-2012, 02:44 PM
 
Location: Mason, OH
9,259 posts, read 13,371,704 times
Reputation: 1920
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81 View Post
I think the idea of fear of the future, which may be more like a low-simmering uncertainty, is valid in a some small way. All you have to do is read some of the Baby Boomer-bashing threads on these very forums to discover that there are quite a few 20-somethings who resent their parents' generation for working up until and even beyond age 65. They resent having to contribute toward Medicare and Social Security because they're sure they won't benefit from it. They resent the fact that their parents benefited from relatively inexpensive college educations. They accuse their parents of everything from running up the national debt and having to start out at the bottom of the career ladder to the cost of an iPhone and the fact that their parents are spending what they presumed would be their inheritance.

So, yes, there is some uncertainty for the future, and rightfully so, because the economic future of the country is uncertain -- pretty much as it has been since the 1970s' oil embargo and the collapse of manufacturing. I wasn't all that hopeful when I graduated from college in 1981, either. So how does that translate into everyday life? The 20-somethings I work with don't buy cars (the cost of insurance is stifling here), they rent apartments with roommates. They need to be close to public transportation and places to buy everyday needs. To do all that requires urban living (although in larger cities you can get that in some 'burbs, too). And while urban living is a preference for some, there's still some economic motivation behind it.

More power to 'em; it's good to see many cities rebounding from the horrid urban renewal policies of the 50s and 60s. But whether that trend continues in the same age group is yet to be seen; they very well may take the suburban route when it comes time to educate their children and, at that point, younger people will take their place.

All generations rebel against their parents' way of life ... for awhile. Ah, the circle of life ...
I tried to rep you but apparently can't. Congrats on a great post. This much I will garantee you, no matter what they think of their parent's policies, when it comes time to educate their own children it will be off to the suburbs we go.
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Old 10-21-2012, 02:47 PM
 
Location: Cincinnati
4,007 posts, read 4,831,178 times
Reputation: 924
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81 View Post
The 20-somethings I work with don't buy cars (the cost of insurance is stifling here), they rent apartments with roommates. They need to be close to public transportation and places to buy everyday needs. To do all that requires urban living (although in larger cities you can get that in some 'burbs, too). And while urban living is a preference for some, there's still some economic motivation behind it.
This describes NYC to a T. But consider the economic realities of life in NYC, where you have to have a lot of money just to rent an apartment. Wouldn't relocating to the Midwest where things are much cheaper be a better economic move? Yet, kids from the Midwest have been flocking to NYC for years because the lifestyle the choose is there. I put forth that in places such as San Francisco, Boston, NYC, et al., are way more expensive than many option available to people. Yet these cities all have gained population and have a very expensive cost of living. So, the economic argument fall flat when you remove it from the context of Cincinnati, which is dirt cheap in comparison.
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Old 10-21-2012, 02:53 PM
 
Location: Cincinnati
4,007 posts, read 4,831,178 times
Reputation: 924
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81 View Post
But whether that trend continues in the same age group is yet to be seen; they very well may take the suburban route when it comes time to educate their children and, at that point, younger people will take their place.
Denver is an example of a growing city that has a growing trend of parents choosing to utilize public schools. Again, no doubt some will opt for private schools, charter schools, or suburbs. But to make the case that cities will empty out once their kids start school is inconsistent with reality.

Denver Public Schools Has Fastest-Growing Enrollment Of Urban School Districts In Country
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Old 10-21-2012, 02:55 PM
 
1,556 posts, read 1,463,978 times
Reputation: 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomJones123 View Post
Right. Why would you take them serious? They are only based on census data.
The census data is not inherently biased, it's how some people interpret it to fit their preconceived notions that is biased.
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Old 10-21-2012, 03:00 PM
 
Location: Cincinnati
4,007 posts, read 4,831,178 times
Reputation: 924
Quote:
Originally Posted by flashes1 View Post
The census data is not inherently biased, it's how some people interpret it to fit their preconceived notions that is biased.
I know some on CD forums who do that. What does that have to do with multiple links from various sources showing the same trend? Is it a conspiracy? Do I smell a straw man logic fallacy brewing with you?
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Old 10-21-2012, 03:04 PM
 
Location: Philaburbia
31,216 posts, read 57,353,566 times
Reputation: 52079
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomJones123 View Post
Yet these cities all have gained population and have a very expensive cost of living. So, the economic argument fall flat when you remove it from the context of Cincinnati, which is dirt cheap in comparison.
Maybe it's more jobs than lifestyle; I don't know for sure because I'm no longer in my 20s, and when I was I was working for small-town newspapers. The availability of work was more important than a big-city lifestyle, and my work was in small towns and suburbs.

And with that expensive cost of living does come a higher salary; that I do know for sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TomJones123 View Post
Denver is an example of a growing city that has a growing trend of parents choosing to utilize public schools. Again, no doubt some will opt for private schools, charter schools, or suburbs. But to make the case that cities will empty out once their kids start school is inconsistent with reality.
I didn't say they will; I said it remains to be seen. If my generation's kids decide they want to stay in the city, and are willing to fight for better educational opportunities for their kids (our grandkids!) and reverse the trend, again, more power to 'em. I'd like nothing better than to see improvements in public school systems, for all kids.
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Old 10-21-2012, 03:08 PM
 
Location: Cincinnati
4,007 posts, read 4,831,178 times
Reputation: 924
Quote:
Originally Posted by flashes1 View Post
The census data is not inherently biased, it's how some people interpret it to fit their preconceived notions that is biased.
Well, perhaps you and I can agree that The Brookings Institute is a reputable source for information?

Demographic Reversal: Cities Thrive, Suburbs Sputter | Brookings Institution
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