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Old 11-15-2012, 03:32 PM
 
Location: Chicago(Northside)
3,719 posts, read 5,858,152 times
Reputation: 1642

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I think if we turn all those surface parking lots into high rise condos, this will help pretty much everyhting downtown into makiiing more money. This is not a problem because right now condos, lofts...ect. downtown are in demand and get filled right up before they open.
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Old 11-15-2012, 03:59 PM
 
2,492 posts, read 3,652,150 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjbrill View Post
Yes, if you don't buy anything they will go under. They are not just there for your entertainment.
Kinda like cincinnati.com?
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Old 11-15-2012, 04:52 PM
 
1,130 posts, read 2,022,655 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neilworms2 View Post
I didn't learn about it until after a year of living in Cincinnati! It was helpful for a year or two until it started to decline - way more convenient to the University than any of the other malls. At least when I was living there it wasn't that well advertised - though I was a college student who didn't watch much tv and spend a lot of my time studying.

Also, its kind of sad that Cincinnati was so late to catch on to urbanism, it would have been awesome to be at a downtown Borders there. Man, I do miss those stores - they were more fun to browse and grab a coffee at than to actually buy anything - though I understand why they've gone under.
Advertising had little to do with Tower Place's demise. It had everything to do with the cart before the horse...and the city only now seems to be figuring that out.

In the '80s and '90s the city was obsessed with this idea of trying to coax people out of suburbia to come downtown and spend money. There was the crazy idea that retail was IT. Not only retail, but the same retail that already existed in suburbs. And when no one came, for some reason they were shocked. This ridiculous notion reached its zenith when they bribed TJ Maxx into opening a store in Tower Place (it was a great irony that space formerly occupied by one of the most upscale and respected Cincinnati retailers, Gidding Jenny, had become a low rent discount chain).

You see, the fatal flaw in this thinking that made the tens of millions of dollars poured into this development a total waste, is the fact that retail cannot generally survive where there is not an economically viable indigenous population to support it...particularly retail that offers nothing unique that cannot be found in three or four or more locations where people actually live. In other words, those tens of millions of dollars should have been directed at creating an opportunity for people to live AND work in downtown. If people had actually lived downtown, then guess what...retailers would see the market studies and realize that there is a customer base there that needs to be served, and it wouldn't require massive tax breaks and shady deals to get them to want to populate empty store fronts.

After all, look at the outlying suburbs...West Chester, Mason, Deerfield Twp, even Lebanon...people were moving out there for years before market forces actually got grocery stores, restaurants and everything else to locate close by. Businesses saw opportunity and have pursued it. But downtown Cincinnati tried to get them there without the people and it failed miserably.
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Old 11-16-2012, 11:23 AM
 
108 posts, read 147,951 times
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t45209 - I think you have made a great point. Why would I go downtown to eat or shop at a place that I already have nearby with much easier access. I go downtown now because of the uniqueness of the places their. I regularily shop at the downtown Macy's even with one very close by, because I believe they have more of what I am looking for, and I like the layout better. If downtown had the population to support the run of "regular" places, then they probably would have survived just fine.
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Old 11-16-2012, 01:54 PM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
477 posts, read 529,700 times
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Quote:
Not only retail, but the same retail that already existed in suburbs. And when no one came, for some reason they were shocked. This ridiculous notion reached its zenith when they bribed TJ Maxx into opening a store in Tower Place (it was a great irony that space formerly occupied by one of the most upscale and respected Cincinnati retailers, Gidding Jenny, had become a low rent discount chain).
Actually the city started pursuing the strategy of getting people downtown in the late 1990s, it got set back by the riots unfortunately - which did set Cincy back 10 years, though Downtown was growing even before OTR's "Gateway" was cleaned up.

I thought I had read somewhere (article posted on UO in the Biz Courier or the Enquirer) that originally Tower Place did have more destination stores, but without a consistent sustainable population that gave way to the standard suburban junk, which these days is going the way of nothing at all. Also IMO I think the hudge bets on retail were wrong for the city/developers, they've been shifting too far in the other direction, downtown Cincy is prime for a grocer with the current level of population for instance, it just needs to take a risk (which won't happen in a region that doesn't take risks in a particularly risk adverse industry).
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Old 11-16-2012, 06:06 PM
 
1,130 posts, read 2,022,655 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neilworms2 View Post
Actually the city started pursuing the strategy of getting people downtown in the late 1990s, it got set back by the riots unfortunately - which did set Cincy back 10 years, though Downtown was growing even before OTR's "Gateway" was cleaned up.

I thought I had read somewhere (article posted on UO in the Biz Courier or the Enquirer) that originally Tower Place did have more destination stores, but without a consistent sustainable population that gave way to the standard suburban junk, which these days is going the way of nothing at all. Also IMO I think the hudge bets on retail were wrong for the city/developers, they've been shifting too far in the other direction, downtown Cincy is prime for a grocer with the current level of population for instance, it just needs to take a risk (which won't happen in a region that doesn't take risks in a particularly risk adverse industry).
There was nothing that I can think of that was not already at Kenwood or several other malls that was in Tower Place...Williams Sonoma, Kenwood; J Riggings, multiple locations; Victorias Secret, everywhere; Banana Republic, Kenwood; the science store, music store, book store, the cheap watch kiosk, everything, right down to the soft pretzel joint was a virtual rerun of everything that was already available everywhere else.
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Old 11-17-2012, 01:51 AM
 
Location: Mason, OH
9,259 posts, read 13,358,349 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t45209 View Post
There was nothing that I can think of that was not already at Kenwood or several other malls that was in Tower Place...Williams Sonoma, Kenwood; J Riggings, multiple locations; Victorias Secret, everywhere; Banana Republic, Kenwood; the science store, music store, book store, the cheap watch kiosk, everything, right down to the soft pretzel joint was a virtual rerun of everything that was already available everywhere else.
But the idea of Downtown Cincinnati being a retail destination drawing people into the City should have been recognized as a pipe dream. Tower Place needed to survive as a retail destination strictly on the strength of the downtown residential population and some of the office workers shopping there for convenience. So I do not find fault with it having the same stores as the suburban malls, as obviously people do shop there. Downtown residents should be more than willing to shop downtown rather than go to a suburban mall.

Perhaps it was just premature, created before the downtown residential resurgence had gotten up a sufficient head of steam. Once things go downhill they tend to just keep going in that direction. Perhaps just sit on it and wait for a developer to recognize downtown residential has arrived to the point they can support a downtown mall.
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Old 01-16-2013, 07:02 PM
 
Location: Cincinnati
577 posts, read 1,003,907 times
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I didn't see this article until the other day. The remaining tenants in Tower Place have been served eviction notices.

Businesses ordered to leave struggling Tower Place Mall in downtown Cincinnati - Business Courier
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Old 01-16-2013, 07:30 PM
 
Location: Mason, OH
9,259 posts, read 13,358,349 times
Reputation: 1919
Quote:
Originally Posted by abr7rmj View Post
Kinda like cincinnati.com?
Yes, but newspapers existed for years on advertising revenue. The cost of printing, delivery, etc. was not even covered by the subscription revenue. If they want to survive in this age, then give me something I am interested in and cannot get another dozen places on the internet. This is where I feel they have failed. Charging for another also-ran version of the same thing available free is not going to get it.
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Old 01-17-2013, 07:55 AM
 
Location: "Daytonnati"
4,245 posts, read 5,747,512 times
Reputation: 2953
I have fond memories of Tower Place as a fun shopping destination on a Saturday, wrapping it up with a visit to other things downtown. I think this was the early 1990s?

They did have stores we didnt have in Dayton, but I didnt know Cincy already had these (thinking of Williams Sonoma & The Nature Company), Structure was pretty cool, too...I think the one in Tower Place was the first one I ever saw (dont recall if they ever came to Dayton), and I liked that electronics store, which had some nifty stuff (for its day).
The Banana Republic there was still a bit funky and not so generic yet, like a they are now.

Tower Place was fun...and there was that luxe Saks Fifth Avenue across the skywalk.

I think there was some timing issues that hurt, like Lazarus/Maceys opening up later, when the place started to decline, and the McAlpins going out of business.

But really, just to far to drive and you had to pay for parking and park in a garage, which would kill the place for the average suburban shopper (for us it was the novetly/recreation aspect of going downtown...iwhich is just a sort of eccentricity, not a common POV nowadays)
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