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Old 12-13-2012, 08:20 AM
 
Location: Cincinnati
4,007 posts, read 4,842,965 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by progmac View Post
I think the whole suburb v city thing in Cincy is perpetuated by a few loud but thin-skinned urbanites who secretly want a massive gentrification of the entire urbanized area so as to be ultimately vindicated for their years spent living in somewhat run-down areas. Of course the few suburban ninnies that are scared of their own shadow don't help matters.

But MOST people in the suburbs LIKE the City and want it to succeed.
Then explain Bill Cunningham and his many sympathetic listeners. I have to disagree with you on this. See my link at the bottom of the post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dayton Sux View Post
Tom Jones and I had a brief exchange a while back as to which metro area had the worse city-suburb animosity, Cincinnati or Dayton. I used to think it was really bad here in Dayton..the 'city-hate/avoidance'...compared to Cincy, where I detected much more civic pride and support for what goes on in the city.
I gotta say, that since we had our conversation I have come to realize how bad the suburban/urban divide is in Cincinnati. Having lived in Cincinnati and Dayton, I am now of the opinion that Cincinnati takes the prize. And I am not the only "outsider" to notice it either.

The Urbanophile Blog Archive Cincinnati vs. Cincinnati

Last edited by TomJones123; 12-13-2012 at 08:29 AM..
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Old 12-13-2012, 08:24 AM
 
Location: Cincinnati
4,007 posts, read 4,842,965 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter1948 View Post
They are roughly in the same tier of cities.
Perhaps one can draw that conclusion based on population stats alone, though it's somewhat of a stretch. Cincinnati was a big city very early on in American history, and It has been, and remains the more prominent city over Louisville - in spite of Cincinnati's obvious decline. Though, Louisville has made strides that I believe Cincinnati should emulate. But then again, Cincinnati is making strides in redeveloping it's urban core that stand on it's own.
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Old 12-13-2012, 11:30 AM
 
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>explain Bill Cunningham

Bill Cunningham is the single greatest architect of Cincinnati's civic pessimism. His 700 WLW radio show makes fun of black people -- his national TV show is watched mostly by black people. Incredibly, he's not even a Republican despite doing a conservative talk show for 25 years. He was publicly a democrat in the 70's, even ran for office as a Democrat. People who know him personally say he is in fact still a Democrat. Yet it's his job to wake up, drive 2miles over to the station, and act like a Republican. It's totally insane.

More insane is that his audience would never believe these things -- that their hero knows that they're all total suckers yet willingly is paid to enflame opinions that he himself doesn't subscribe to. As a former criminal defense lawyer who got several murderers set free, perhaps in his mind it's the same thing -- it's just a gig.


>Louisville

Seriously? I have been to Louisville at least 25 times and have never seen any hint that it has anything, with the exception of the Kentucky Derby, that Cincinnati doesn't. It's an accident of history that somehow Indianapolis and Louisville each ended up with an internationally known event and Cincinnati didn't, but in neither case do those events motivate too much other stuff.
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Old 12-13-2012, 12:05 PM
 
Location: Philaburbia
31,331 posts, read 57,560,395 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomJones123 View Post
Then explain Bill Cunningham
I don't think that's possible.
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Old 12-13-2012, 01:03 PM
 
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I apologize for feeding the troll, but I can't resist. The Louisville fanboy was making me laugh. Louisville might be bohemian for small town Kentuckians but hardly compared to larger cities. I was reading an article the other day written by Louisville natives who recently took a trip to both Louisville and Cincinnati. The writer commented how much more vibrant downtown Cincy and OTR were compared to Louisville and the NULU district. The writer even stated that there was hardly anyone walking the streets in Louisville and asked Cincy to "send the redevelopment juice downstream."

A/N Blog . Cincinnati is Recovering From the Swine Flu
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Old 12-13-2012, 01:10 PM
 
Location: "Daytonnati"
4,245 posts, read 5,775,024 times
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Quote:
Seriously? I have been to Louisville at least 25 times and have never seen any hint that it has anything, with the exception of the Kentucky Derby, that Cincinnati doesn't. It's an accident of history that somehow Indianapolis and Louisville each ended up with an internationally known event and Cincinnati didn't, but in neither case do those events motivate too much other stuff.
Derby Week gets national attention and tourists and various celeberities and rich folks coming to town, but is more of an excuse to party for the locals...maybe sort of quasi-madi gras, but the local scene has moved beyond that...the Derby stuff is sort of an outlier.

Cincy has Tall Stacks and Oktoberfest, which are pretty cool events in their own right. One thing Cincy does have that I really like and Louisville doesnt are

1. Bockfest (this is more the urbanist/hipster version of Oktoberfest, perhaps)
2. The Fringe Festival (which is a great performing arts thing if you are into dance and theatre)

...and Cincy has the incomparable FIndlay Market, which is one of my favorite spots in Ohio. I alsways tell folks to check it out.

Louisville HAD a market like that (the Haymarket), but it was destroyed by urban renewal...twice (the original and...just recently.... the relocated market).

So Cincy is the only city in the Ohio Valley outside of Pbgh to retain an inner city market area. Findlay Market is great. I think after that Gateway Quarter is redone they should focus on gentrifying stuff around Findlay Market.
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Old 12-13-2012, 01:24 PM
 
Location: "Daytonnati"
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Quote:
The writer commented how much more vibrant downtown Cincy and OTR were compared to Louisville and the NULU district.
Here's the deal on central Louisville.

You folks recall that in Cincy you have these parts of downtown like Court Street and Main Street that are sort of these funky fringe areas with little shops and upstairs apartments and stuff?

And that you can pretty much walk out of downtown right into OTR, which is this old 19th century neighborhood with tenements and busy streets?

Well you can't do that in Louisville.

Whats left of their downtown is surrounded by MASSIVE urban renewal. They tore down ONE THOUSAND SQUARE BLOCKS of the old 19th century city...as part of the "official" urban renewal program of the 1960s, and they tore down even more since then.

So their downtown is surrounded by this no-mans land of parking lots and low density stuff or housing projects or big "Pill Hill" hospital complexes, isolated from the surviving neighborhoods.

There is no Over-The-Rhine or Court Street...it was all torn down.

Except for that one stretch of Market Street heading east of downtown, a few blocks, which is now called NuLu. NuLu is fun and interesting, but there is no neighborhood around it.

For a Cincy analogy, it's as if they would have kept Main or Vine and tore down everythng around it. Or if they wrapped the Queensgate urban renewal area totally around downtown Cincy.

Louisville is actually quite interesting and liveable once you get out into the neighborhoods...this is where the life of the city really is....however the downtown is very much seperated & disconnected from all this by this misguided demolition/reconstruction policy.
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Old 12-13-2012, 01:35 PM
 
Location: Cincinnati
4,007 posts, read 4,842,965 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dayton Sux View Post
"official" urban renewal program of the 1960s, and they tore down even more since then.
I've been educating myself on how this so called urban renewal of the 50/60s had a major hand in destroying many inner city neighborhoods all across the country. Many of the neighborhoods that were wiped out were black...coincidence? Just imagine if we still had Kenyon Barr in Cincinnati instead of what's left of it (West End) and what it is now (Queensgate/ I-75.)

Thankfully, OTR/Pendleton/West End (think Dayton street) are still intact, and in the case of OTR and Pendleton, seeing new life and/or becoming vibrant destinations in their own right.
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Old 12-13-2012, 01:36 PM
 
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Yes I definitely had the impression that Louisville's downtown was not very intact. I do not doubt that it is livable and has nice neighborhoods, as do most cities. For urban living and overall vibrancy it is definitely a disadvantage to have your central area cut off from the rest of the city though. I also know people currently living in Louisville and I really doubt that Louisville is more liberal overall than Cincy. The people are pretty similar.
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Old 12-13-2012, 01:47 PM
 
800 posts, read 700,505 times
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Yes I have seen articles elsewhere on the scale of Louisville's demolitions. Cincinnati might have demolished as much, but there was more to begin with so more remains. Yes, we all know some of it is in pretty bad shape, and that although the very nice historic areas are very nice they are not connected to one another. However the east side from Woodburn Ave. (East Walnut Hills, not Evanston, obviously) east to Linwood and northeast to Oakley is a contiguous area without equal in midsized cities.

A serious effort is afoot to revitalize Walnut Hills, a trend that would be underway by itself if Metromoves had passed in 2002 and a light rail line was in operation presently on Gilbert Avenue. But if the current momentum can be maintained for another 10 years, it's conceivable that OTR, Corryville, and Walnut Hills will all be gentrified neighborhoods and safe to walk at night. This will mean the nice area I described in the first paragraph will be contiguous all the way to downtown and Clifton Gaslight.

Meanwhile the push to buy, buy, buy in Over-the-Rhine is becoming so strong that I know of Cincinnati expats who want to move back some day buying condos there now. I personally am trying to buy the building I live in because the landlord is old and I don't think quite recognizes what is going on.
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