Progressive Culture in Cincinnati? Cincinnati v. Portland? (Fairfield, Findlay: crime rates, how much)

[progmac]

Originally Posted by NicoleRic

The problem is that as it stands now most of the neighborhoods in the inner city are really for urban pioneers. As a single female I would not feel comfortable living by myself and walking the streets alone in most areas of the inner city. I love urban areas and am aware that you have be aware of your surroundings. I feel that I have a higher tolerance level than most. The reality right now is that most people would not feel comfortable living in most areas for safety reasons. There are exceptions. I would feel comfortable living in the CBD, for example. I wouldn't want to live in Hyde Park either, but there are not enough wealthy people living in this area for the entire inner city to become like Hyde Park.

I think pioneer infers that you are alone, that is certainly not the case, not even close. It is also harder for women. As a man, the worst case scenario is someone mugs me. That doesn't scare me. These people committing crimes are just young idiots. But being afraid of being the victim of a sexual assault, while something I can't relate to, seems like it would be terrifying; i'm sure it would affect where I chose to live.

I also don't understand the term inner city. But I agree that crime in the City is high relative to the suburbs. I don't see that changing, ever, unless we figure out how to deal with poverty in this country.

[NicoleRic]

Originally Posted by progmac

I also don't understand the term inner city. But I agree that crime in the City is high relative to the suburbs. I don't see that changing, ever, unless we figure out how to deal with poverty in this country.

I would refer to the inner city as the basin, uptown, and the immediate surrounding areas. That is how I have heard other people refer to it as well. Off hand the only neighborhoods in city limits that would appeal to the majority of people are Mt Adams, Hyde Park, Clifton Gaslight, Oakley, Mt Lookout, Columbia Tusculum and maybe a couple others. If the city wants to grow again it is going to have to substantially improve on this number. You might challenge this assertion but the numbers do not lie. Tens of thousands of people leave the city each decade. Sure crime will always be higher in cities but where it currently stands is not acceptable for most people. It is not anti-city to realize this.

[progmac]

Originally Posted by NicoleRic

I would refer to the inner city as the basin, uptown, and the immediate surrounding areas. That is how I have heard other people refer to it as well. Off hand the only neighborhoods in city limits that would appeal to the majority of people are Mt Adams, Hyde Park, Clifton Gaslight, Oakley, Mt Lookout, Columbia Tusculum and maybe a couple others. If the city wants to grow again it is going to have to substantially improve on this number. You might challenge this assertion but the numbers do not lie. Tens of thousands of people leave the city each decade. Sure crime will always be higher in cities but where it currently stands is not acceptable for most people. It is not anti-city to realize this.

I never said anything that challenged anything that you're saying. I certainly don't disagree with you and don't think you're anti-city. My ego is annoyed that I projected that image. I merely said that I like the city as it is. As you say, there are plenty of neighborhoods that appeal to people looking for a relatively crimeless urban experience.

[NicoleRic]

Originally Posted by progmac

I never said anything that challenged anything that you're saying. I certainly don't disagree with you and don't think you're anti-city. My ego is annoyed that I projected that image. I merely said that I like the city as it is. As you say, there are plenty of neighborhoods that appeal to people looking for a relatively crimeless urban experience.

Oh ok. I apologize. I personally would like to see more areas of the city become safer along the lines of the neighborhoods I mentioned. With increasing safety many areas become upscale and unaffordable to middle class people like me. Many might be apprehensive about that, but I think Northside is an example of a neighborhood that can retain its character and become safer without pricing out the middle or lower incomes.

[t45209]

Originally Posted by NicoleRic

Walnut Hills does not does not have any buzz or energy about it outside of a few urban pioneers who closely follow what is going on in the city.

This is only half true. The urban pioneering days in some sections of Walnut Hills are long since over. For example, much of the area south of McMillan and approaching Eden Park is a solid area, with many well-to-do owner occupied homes and condos. An increasing number of families with children can be found in the area. You mentioned that you are a single female, and I think you would be amazed at the number of women that live in that area and feel quite comfortable. Spend some time around there and you will see them walking their dogs all the time.

You are correct that there is not much buzz about Walnut Hills, but there should be, and I think there may be if the new form-based code adopted by the city has the desired impact. People who are casual observers only see blighted buildings at Peebles Corner when they think of Walnut Hills, but they are missing a lot.

In spite of the fact that I think many of the community leaders in Walnut Hills have been around too long and are constrained by their own narrow perceptions of what Walnut Hills can and should be, I would put my money on that neighborhood to make a major turn-around in the intermediate term.

[NicoleRic]

Originally Posted by t45209

You are correct that there is not much buzz about Walnut Hills, but there should be, and I think there may be if the new form-based code adopted by the city has the desired impact. People who are casual observers only see blighted buildings at Peebles Corner when they think of Walnut Hills, but they are missing a lot.

It's true that my overall impression of Walnut Hills is affected by the blighted buildings at Peebles Corner and the crime in the neighborhood although I understand that is trending down. If the neighborhood is further along than I thought than the message will get out eventually. The area near Eden Park sounds interesting.

[Obi-Cago]

I had to chime in after lurking along and I disagree that many of the areas you guys mention are unsafe. OTR, CUF, Prospect Hill and other parts of Mount Auburn, Corryville, Clifton, Northside, etc. are perfectly fine. You guys that think they are unsafe are letting your imaginations run wild, or you aren't used to urban living. I don't think every neighborhood in cincinnai should be like Hyde Park to be considered safe. What, we want to homogenize everything?

[NicoleRic]

Originally Posted by Obi-Cago

I had to chime in after lurking along and I disagree that many of the areas you guys mention are unsafe. OTR, CUF, Prospect Hill and other parts of Mount Auburn, Corryville, Clifton, Northside, etc. are perfectly fine.

Well, I feel the neighborhoods you mentioned have varying levels of safety and some vary greatly in different parts of the neighborhood. In Over the Rhine obviously south of Liberty feels safer than north of Liberty. Personally if an area has a lot of vacant buildings I would not feel comfortable living there. I have gone to Northside to go to Shake it Records since I could drive and have been very impressed by how much the neighborhood has improved over the past ten years. Clifton Gaslight is fine and I think Prospect Hill is too. Outside certain pockets I do not feel that the uptown neighborhoods are particularly safe places to live but I admit that while I am there almost every day I have never lived there.

[jmecklenborg]

People who live in high crime areas are not afraid of getting their car broken into or being mugged. I know about a dozen people who have been "mugged" in Cincinnati but a grand total of two of them were actually punched, myself being one of them. I know a few hundred people who are quote-unquote urban pioneers and I don't know anyone who has been shot and definitely don't know that any woman has been raped by a stranger in Cincinnati in Over-the-Rhine or anywhere else.

People who are afraid of the city are afraid of "worst-case" scenarios, which basically *never* happen. What's more, those who are afraid of the city tend to be the sports bar crowd, while the gays and artists they used to beat up in high school are the ones who do just fine in the city.

[NicoleRic]

It seems most who defend the current crime levels prefer many areas of the city be a place where it is expected that at some point you will have your car or house broken into or be mugged if it means that these areas will remain a haven for artists and gays and keeps the "sports bar crowd" out. There's nothing wrong with that but currently there are not enough artists living in this city to fill all the vacant buildings that are rotting. Some seem to want the city to get national attention for turning itself around and yet they really don't want that. The city is never going to turn itself around if it can't attract all kinds of people and it definitely needs more neighborhoods that can attract the middle class and families if it wants to thrive. There will always be gritty areas for artists. If not, that is certainly a very long way off.

I think it is simplistic to label those who want crime to get better as being "afraid of the city." I would feel comfortable living in the CBD, for one. A place can be urban with character and not feel unsafe. East Walnut Hills in recent years is a good example.